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mumukShu- svAshrit nishchay aur parAshrit vyavahAr hai, to phir nishchay-vyavahArako barAbar shAstramen pUjya kaise kahA hai? jabaki vyavahAr parAshrit mArga hai aur nishchay svAshrit hai, to svAshrit to pUjya hai, tab parAshrit mArga vyavahArako bhI sAthamen pUjya kahA hai, to kis apekShAse?

samAdhAna- pUjya hai. gnAn, darshan, chAritra ratnatray pragaT hote hain, isaliye. sAdhakadashA hai, mokShakA mArga hai isaliye pUjanik kahanemen AtA hai. dravya to pUjanik hai parantu vyavahAr bhI muktike mArgamen vyavahAr sAthamen AtA hai.

AchAryadev kahate hain, ham kyA karen? bIchamen A jAtA hai. isaliye vyavahAr AtA hai. parantu ratnatray pragaT hotA hai isaliye usako pUjanik kahanemen AtA hai. muktikA mArga hai. sAdhakadashA hai, muktikA ansh pragaT hotA hai isaliye. kevalagnAn bhI paryAy hai, .. kahanemen AtA hai. us apekShAse. ratnatray pUjanik hai.

antaramense paryAy... apekShAse sab bAt AtI hai. koI apekShAse kahe ki vyavahAr pUjanik nahIn hai, paryAy apekShAse pUjanik kahanemen AtA hai. kyonki ratnatray hai isaliye. koI apekShAse aisA kahe ki... sAdhakadashA hai isaliye pUjanaki hai, aisA bhI AtA hai. muniko bhI pUjanik hai. ratnatray pragaT huA hai isaliye. to bhI vyavahAr hey kahanemen AtA hai, to bhI sAthamen A jAtA hai. shubhabhAv hai, bhed Ave to bhed par dRuShTi mat kara. bhed par dRuShTi mat kar, aisA kahanemen Aye. to bhI bIchamen gnAn, darshan, chAritrakA bhed to AtA hai. vah AtmAkI shuddha paryAy hai...

mumukShu- ek jIvanase dvitIy jIvan dhAraN karanA, is prakriyAko sahaj shabdommen yAnI jain TarminolojI hai, jise kahen jain shabdAvali, usake bAhar chhoTemen ham log kais tarahase samajh aur samajhA sakate hain?

samAdhAna- usamen to kyA hai? punarjanma hai to hai. anek jAtake janma letA hai dUsare-dUsare sthAn par, to punarjanma to hai. koI rAjAke ghar jAtA hai, koI rankake ghar jAtA hai, koI jainamen janmtA hai, koI kahAn janmtA hai. ek janmamense dUsare janmamen AtA hai to pUrvamen jo pariNAm kiye hain, usakA phal hai. dUsare-dUsare janmamen AtA

PDF/HTML Page 794 of 1906
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hai to usakA kAraN to kuchh hai. aise anyAy nahIn hotA, koI kisIke ghar, koI kisIke ghar jAtA hai. AtmA shAshvat hai. usake pariNAmake phalamen koI rAjAke ghar, koI rankake ghar janma letA hai.

mumukShu- bahinashrI! yah to huA karmaphal siddhAnta. lekin isakI prakriyA kyA hai? prosesa.

samAdhAna- prakriyA kyA hai?

mumukShu- yAnI yahAnse ek jIvan samApta huA aur dvitIy jIv prArambha huA, usake bIchakA jo antarAl hai, usamen AtmA kin sthitiommense gujaratI hai?

samAdhAna- antarAlamen to usakI gati hotI hai. jaisA usakA pariNAm hotA hai, usake anusAr gati hotI hai. usakI prakriyA kuchh dekhanemen nahIn AtI.

mumukShu- ek-do samayamen hotA hai. ek-do samay, tIn samaya. meksimama. usamen kyA prakriyA hogI? vahAn pahunchanemen utkRuShTa tIn samay lagate hain.

samAdhAna- usamen prakriyA ek samayamen, do samayamen vah pahunch jAtA hai.

mumukShu- jaise kahIn jagah kyA rahatA hai ki nishchit antarAl rahate hain, kuchh taijas sharIrakA bhI... jaise anya darshanommen hai ki taijas sharIr lambe samay tak vidyamAn rahatA hai, sUkShma sharIr jo hai vah ekadam palAhit ho jAtA hai, aisA kuchh?

samAdhAna- aisA jainamen nahIn hai. ek samay, do samay, tIn samaya. koI sIdhI gatimen jAtA hai, koI TeDhA jAtA hai to aisA konA hotA hai. parantu ek, do, tIn samayamen pahunch jAtA hai. usamen antarAl nahIn rahatA hai. usake bIchamen kuchh antarAl nahIn hai. ek, do, tIn samayamen pahunch jAtA hai.

mumukShu- do-pAnch mahine tak ghumate hain, aisA kahate hain, aisA nahIn hai. .. amerikAse Aye the, .... vah kahate hain ki, anya darshan to chAr-pAnch mahinA ghumate hain jIv, aisA jainamen nahIn hai. ek, do, tIn samayamen kArmANasharIr lekar vahAn pahunch jAtA hai. audArik sharIr yahAn rah jAtA hai.

samAdhAna- koI pahale hotA hai, koI bIchamen hotA hai, koI tIsare bhAgamen hotA hai. bAdamen usakA phal AtA hai. aisA..

mumukShu- tIn bhAg rahatA hai, tab.. mumukShu- ek to yah siddhAnta huA aur ApakA vichAr visheSh is sambandhamen jAnatA hUn main. jaisA tIsare bhAgamen hotA hai, main Apase jAnanA chAhatA hUn. jain siddhAntamen batAyA hai, lekin Apase..

samAdhAna- jain siddhAntamen aisA hotA hai. karma prakRiti koI dikhAI nahIn detI.

PDF/HTML Page 795 of 1906
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AtmAkI svAnubhUtikA anubhav hotA hai ki AtmAkA svabhAv hai, Ananda hai, AtmAkA bhedagnAn kyA hai? sharIr bhinna hai, vibhAv bhinna hai, vibhAv AtmAkA svabhAv nahIn hai, AtmA bhinna hai, usakI svAnubhUti hotI hai, usakA bhedagnAn hotA hai. yah sab AtmAke hAthakI bAt hai. karma prakRiti hai vah dikhAI nahIn detI. vah to kevalagnAnIke gnAnamen pratyakSha gnAnIke gnAnamen, avadhignAnamen, kevalagnAnamen dikhAI detI hai.

jisane aisA svAnubhUtikA mArga batAyA, kevalagnAnakA mArga batAyA, vah pratyakSha gnAnI jo kahate hain, vah yathArtha hai. usamen koI pheraphAr nahIn hotA. aisA yathArtha hotA hai. jagatamen pratyakSha gnAnI hote hain, vItarAgI, jo svAnubhUti hotI hai, svAnubhUtimen visheSh- visheSh lIn hote-hote munidashA (AtI hai). usamen antarmuhUrta-antarmuhUrtamen svAnubhUtimen lIn hote hain. aisA hote-hote kevalagnAn pragaT hotA hai. kevalagnAn-pratyakSha gnAn ek samayamen lokAlok jAn letA hai. AtmAko jAnatA hai aur pudagal evan vishvakI samasta vastuonko, dravya-kShetra-kAl-bhAvako vah jAnate hain. jAnate hain, unake gnAnamen jo AtA hai, vahI shAstramen AtA hai.

jo AtmA hai, usamen jo vibhAv hai to koI karma to hai. karma nahIn hai, aisA nahIn hai. AtmAkA svabhAv to chaitanya hai, usamen vibhAv (hotA hai), vah AtmAkA svabhAv nahIn hai. rAg-dveSh to dukharUp hai. dukh AtmAkA svabhAv nahIn hai. ata karma hai. vah karma anek jAtike hote hain. gnAnAvaraNIy, darshanAvaraNIy (Adi). gnAnako bandha kare, darshanako (bandha kare), aise AyuShyakA bandha, aise anek jAtake karma hote hain. usamen anek jAtakI ras, sthiti hotI hai. usamen anek-anek prakAr hote hain. vah sab prakAr kaise hote hain, vah pratyakSha gnAnIke gnAnamen AtA hai.

samyagdRuShTi aur muniko to svAnubhUti hotI hai. sabako vah pratyakSha dekhanemen Ave aisA nahIn hotI. usakI svAnubhUti pratyakSha dekhanemen AtI hai. svAnubhUtikA vedan hotA hai. karma dekhanemen nahIn Ate. karma to kevalagnAnI aur avadhignAnIko dikhAI dete hain. isaliye pratyakSha gnAnIke gnAnamen jo AyA vah yathArtha hai. amuk bAt yuktise, dalIlase siddha hotI hai. svAnubhUti, vibhAv, usakA karmabandha, paradravya hai. dukharUp jo hai vah paradravya hai, vah dukhakA nimitta hotA hai. isamen gnAnakI shakti.. mUl dravya jo hai usakA svabhAv kShay nahIn hotA-ghAt nahIn hotA, parantu usakI shakti aur paryAyommen pheraphAr hotA hai to karmabandha (hotA hai). gnAn, darshan, chAritrako rokatA hai. aise AyuShya, vedanayI, gotra, nAm Adi anek prakArake karma hote hain, usamen ek AyuShya bandha bhI hotA hai.

jo AyuShya kevalagnAnIke gnAnamen AyA hai ki jIvanake tIsare bhAgamen amuk-amuk

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bhAgommen hotA hai vah yathArtha hai. vah koI pratyakSha dekhanemen nahIn AtA. chhadmastha usako pratyakSha nahIn dekh sakatA. yuktise, vichArase (nakkI hotA hai). jo yukti, dalIlamen AtA hai, svAnubhavamen AtA hai vah kah sakate hain. bAkI sab pratyakSha gnAnIke gnAnamen jo AyA vah yathArtha hai.

mumukShu- bahinashrI! ye jo kArmAN skandha rahate hain, jo janma-janmAntar ke liye Ayubandha, nAm, gotra, antarAy bandha vagairah karate hain, kyA yah bandha karaneke bAdamen haT jAte hain yA AtmAke sAth punarjanmake sAth TrAvel karate hain?

samAdhAna- punarjanmake sAthamen vah Ate hain.

mumukShu- kArmAN skandha?

samAdhAna- hAn, kArmAN Ate hain. kArmAN sharIr sAthamen jAtA hai. jo punarjanmamen jAtA hai, usamen kArmAN sharIr sAthamen jAtA hai.

mumukShu- aisA nahIn hai, bahinashrI! ki jo hamAre yahAmpar jaise shAtA vedanIy vagairahake kArmAN skandha hain, usIko puNya nAm diyA gayA ho aur yahI anya mat-matAntaramen darshan shAstramen taijas sharIrake nAmase kahA gayA ho?

samAdhAna- kArmAN sharIr dUsarA hai, taijas sharIr dUsarA hai.

mumukShu- kArmAN sharIrakA ek bhAg, 148mense ek taijas bandha hotA hai. sab taijas sharIr..

samAdhAna- kArmAN karmakA sharIra. aur taijas sharIr to dUsarA hotA hai. audArik, taijas, vraikiyak vah sharIr nahIn. kArmANasharIr to karma,... vah pUrva bhavamen jAtA hai.

mumukShu- ek aur (prashna hai), bahinashrI! jaise Aj hamalog mAnate hain ki videhakShetramen tIrthankar bhagavAn vidyamAn hain. to Aj videhakShetramen tIrthankar bhagavAnakI vidyamAnatAko lekarake ek sAdhAraN shabdommen kaise kahA jA sakatA hai ki vahAnkI bhAShA, vahAnkI bhAvanA, vahAnke vichAr, vahAnke rahaneke taur-tarIke vagairahake bAremen kahIn Apako kuchh anveShaNamen milA ho, aisA Apake anubhavamen AyA ho, yA Apane paDhakar usapar adhik manan karake aur kuchh nishchit dhAraNA banAyI ho ki videhakShetramen vartamAnamen is prakArakI sthiti chal rahI hai.

samAdhAna- videhakShetramen bhagavAn sAkShAt virAjate hain, unakI divyadhvani chhUTatI hai, samavasaraNamen bhagavAn virAjate hain. vItarAg ho gaye hain to bhI vANI chhUTatI hai. videhakShetramen ek dharma chalatA hai, dUsarA dharma nahIn hai. bhagavAn jo dharma kahate hain, vah ek hI dharma chalatA hai. is panchamakAlamen dUsare, dUsare, dUsare dharma hain, aise dharma nahIn hai. ek dharma-jain dharma chalatA hai, dUsarA koI dharma nahIn chalatA hai.

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mumukShu- ek bAt hai, chUkI Ap aur main, Ap shraddhAnI hai, main ApakI bAtamen shraddhAn karatA hUn, lekin anya AdamI ise kyon mAn le? kaise mAn le? usako manavAnekA koI AdhAr?

samAdhAna- vah mAne yA na mAne, sabakI yogyatA. jisakI jignAsA hove vah mAn sakatA hai, jisakI yogyatA nahIn hove (vah nahIn mAnatA). jisako AtmAkA kalyAN karanA ho, vah vichAr karake mAn le. aur nahIn mAne to usakI yogyatA. nahIn mAne to kyA kare? apane AtmAkA kalyAN karanA hai, dUsarA mAne to mAno, nahIn mAne to nahIn mAno.

mumukShu- ek aur shankA hai, bahinashrI! Aj jo muni paramparA Aj jaisI bhI chal rahI hai aur jaisI muni paramparA shAstronke anurUp hai, is dononke jo antar hai, un antarakI jo dUriyAn hain, vah kabhI miTegI? yA jaisA Aj yah samAnAntar munirUp chal rahA hai aur dUsarA jo samayasAramen muniyonke guN vagairahakA vivechan kiyA gayA hai, inamen ye dUriyAn banI hI rahegI aur ham log bhaTakate rahenge? ki samayasAramen jo praNIt munisvarUp hai, vaise muni DhUnDhate rahe, hamen nahIn mile aur vah muni log jo Aj hai, vah kahate hain ki ham jaise hain vaise hI samayasArake anurUp hai aur ham isake bIch hI bIch Dolate raheenge, isakA bhI koI rastA lagegA ki nahIn lagegA?

samAdhAna- apane AtmAkA kalyAN kar lenA. vah kyA hogA, yah to panchamakAl hai. ... pahale thA, ab to panchamakAlamen huA hai. usamen pheraphAr-pheraphAr chalatA rahatA hai. koI bhAvalingI muni, aisA kAl A jAtA hai to bhAvalingI bhI ho jAtA hai, koI aisA kAl AtA hai to mAtra kriyAmen dharma mAnate hain, aisA bhI ho jAtA hai. aisA kAl AyA to...

gurudev jaise yahAn hue saurAShShTramen, ki jinhonne AtmAkI svAnubhUtikA mArga batAyA. aisA bhI kAl A gayA. sachchA dharma batAyA. gurudev virAjate the, unhonne sachchA AtmAkA mArga batAyA, aisA bhI (kAl) A gayA. yah to panchamakAl hai to aise pheraphAr-pheraphAr chalate hI rahate hain.

mumukShu- to sambhAvanA nahIn hai? jis prakArase AchArya kundakundadevane samayasAramen jis prakArase muniyonkA varNan kiyA hai, aise munidharmakI sambhAvanA Ap is panchamakAlamen Ap nahIn mAnatI hai, aisA?

samAdhAna- kabhI koI aisA kAl A jAy to ho bhI sakate hain. aisA kAl Aye to ho bhI jAya. vaise to panchamakAlake Akhiramen muni, arjikA, shrAvak, shrAvikA hote hain. achchhA kAl hove, A jAy to ho bhI sakate hain. nahIn hove aisA kahAn

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hai? koI bIch-bIchamen ho bhI jAya.

mumukShu- ek aur prashna hai, bahinashrI! punarjanmake sambandhamen kisI vyaktivisheShakI jAnakArI yA ekadam apaneAp gnAn ho jAnA, isake liye koI khAs dhyAn, chintavan vagairah Avashyak hai yA apaneAp ho jAtA hai?

samAdhAna- punarjanmakA kyA karanA? apane AtmAko pahachAn lenA. AtmA gnAnasvarUp gnAyak chaitanya svarUp main hI hUn. aur sharIr main nahIn hUn, paradravya hai. AtmA chaitanyatattva gnAnasvarUp hai, jaD kuchh jAnatA nahIn hai. main jAnanevAlA hUn. rAg-dveSh, sankalpa-vikalpa merA svarUp nahIn hai. main bhagavAn jaisA hUn. aisA bhedagnAn karake AtmAkA svarUp pahachAno. bAkI punarjanmakA gnAn hove, yA na hove, aisA nahIn hai ki usase bhavakA abhAv ho sakatA hai.

bhavakA abhAv to AtmAko pahachAnanese hotA hai. isaliye AtmAko pIchhAno, AtmAkI jAtiko pahachAno. AtmA anAdiananta shAshvat hai usako pIchhAno. aisA gurudev kahate hain, aisA shAstramen AtA hai, AtmAko pIchhAno. gnAyak AtmAko.

mumukShu- jain sthAnakake bAremen, bahinashrI! yah dhyAn jo hai, vah kis prakriyAse prArambha kiyA jAve? AtmAmen gaharA UtaranekI bAt to Ap pharamAte hain, magar usakI a, ba, ka, kha jo bArakhaDI, varNamAlA hai, vah kyA hai? kahAnse shurU kare?

samAdhAna- pahale sachchA gnAn hotA hai, bAdamen sachchA dhyAn hotA hai. sachchA gnAn, AtmAko jAne ki merA svabhAv kyA hai? merA svabhAv kyA? merA astitva kyA? merA dravya-guN-paryAy kyA hai? sabako jAne bAdamen usamen ekAgra honA. to dhyAn hotA hai. jAne binA ekAgra kis chIjamen hogA? jAnatA nahIn hai ki main kaun chaitanya hUn aur dhyAn kahAn karegA? vikalpakA dhyAn hogA. main chaitanya hUn, nirvikalpa tattva hUn, aisA bhItaramense gnAn (kare).

jaise bhagavAnakA AtmA hai, vaisA main hUn. aise chaitanya svabhAvako pahachAnese usamen ekAgra honese, bArambAr ekAgra hove, bArambAr ekAgra hove. yah vikalpa main nahIn hUn, main chaitanya hUn, bArambAr ekAgra hove to dhyAn hotA hai. parantu gnAn karanese dhyAn hotA hai. mUl prayojanabhUt gnAn to honA chAhiye. jyAdA shAstrakA gnAn hove aisA nahIn, parantu prayojanabhUt tattvako to jAnanA chAhiye.

jaise shivabhUti muni kuchh jAnate nahIn the. lekin main bhinna aur yah bhinna hai. vah aurat dAl aur chhilakA bhinna karatI thI ki yah chhilakA bhinna hai, dAl bhinna hai. aise main chaitanya bhinna hUn, aisA thoDA bhI gnAn bhItaramense honA chAhiye. bAdamen sachchA dhyAn ho sakatA hai.

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mumukShu- vyaktigat jIvanake bAreemen digambar shAstrommen kam milatA hai aur anya shAstrommen jo milatA hai, usako paDhanese mAthA ekadam garam ho jAtA hai. jaise ki kalpasUtramen hai yA bhagavatI sUtramen hai, jo kuchh mahAvIrake jIvanake bAremen milatA hai, kyonki bahinashrI use khUb paDhA hai. to usako paDhanese mAthe nasen jo hain jhanajhanA jAtI hai ki yadi agar yah mahAvIr hai to vAstavik mahAvIr koI aur hogA, yah sab bhrAntiyAn...

samAdhAna- .. kuchh nahIn hai. yathArtha hove, bas itanA... munidashAmen .. jUThA grahaN nahIn karanA. thoDA hove to thoDA, parantu yathArtha grahaN karanA. shvetAmbar, sthAnakavAsI the. gurudev saurAShTramen aise pragaT hue ki unase sachchA dharma pragaT huA.

mumukShu- aisA lagatA hai ki lokAchAr, jinadatta sUrI...

samAdhAna- yathArtha mArga (grahaN karanA). koI sampradAy, vADA kisIko grahaN nahIn karake, sachchA dharma pragaT kiyA. bahut takalIph huyI to bhI sachchA mArga pragaT kiyA.

mumukShu- AshIrvAdasvarUpamen bahut prApta kiyA. bahinashrI! Aj ApakA svAsthya achchhA nahIn hote hue bhI Apane hamen udabodhan diyA, ham par baDI kRupA karI. hamAre liye to.. gurudevako bhI hamane dekhA nahIn hai, to gurudevakI paramparAko dekhakar hI samajh rahe hain ki Aj gurudevake charaNommen A gaye hain.

samAdhAna- (gurudev) to koI aur hI the. sonagaDhamen to unakI vANI... nidhi pAmIne jan koI nij vatane rahI phaL bhogave, tem gnAnI parajan sang chhoDI, gnAn nidhine bhogave. gurudevake pAs itanI vANI sunane milI, gurudevane sab diyA. gurudevane mArga batAyA, itane shAstra samajhAye. jo denA thA vah sab gurudevane diyA. ab andar AtmAkA karane jaisA hai. ekAntamen rahakar aur apanA svAdhyAy karake AtmAkA kar lene jaisA hai. gurudev hI hai aur gurudevane is panchamakAlamen sab diyA hai.

shAstramen to aisA AtA hai, nidhi pAmIne jan koI nij vatanamAn rahe. aisA hai, lekin nidhi arthAt antarakI nidhi. gnAnIjan parajan sang chhoDI, gnAnanidhi bhogave arthAt chaitanyanidhiko bhogatA hai. apane aise shubhabhAvamen artha lete the. gurudevake pAs.. antaramakA pragaT ho vah to alag hI bAt hai. artha to usamen hai, shAstrakA artha vah hai. gnAnanidhiko tU ekAntamen bhoga. terI gnAnanidhikI sAdhanA kar, chaitanyakI. parantu gurudevase jo milA hai, barason tak sAnnidhyamen (rahakar), use tU ab andar (UtAr).