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samAdhAna- .. bhedagnAn karanA, mahimA karanI. gnAyakamen sab bharapUr bharA hai, usako pahachAnanA. bAharamen kuchh nahIn hai, bhItaramen sab kuchh hai. gnAyak ananta guNase bharapUr ananta- ananta khajAnA, ananta shaktiyAn gnAyakamen bharI hai. us par dRuShTi karanese, gnAn karanese, pariNatikI lInatA karanA vahI karanA hai. vahI jIvanakA kartavya hai. shAstra abhyAs, tattva vichAr ye sab karake apane AtmAko pIchhAnanA. dhyey vah rakhanA, vahI karanekA. AchAryadevakI kyA bAt! gurudevane upakAr kiyA hai, apUrva mArga batAyA. sab shAstrake rahasya gurudevane khulle kiye hain. pAriNAmikabhAv Adi sabakA svarUp gurudevane batAyA hai. anAdiananta AtmA pAriNAmikabhAv svarUp hai, usamen gnAyakatA bharI hai. gnAyakatA bhI pAriNAmikabhAvasvarUp (hai).

anAdiananta .. svarUp shuddhAtmA, pAriNAmikabhAvasvarUp, vahI lakShyamen lene yogya, vah pUjanIy aur mahimAyogya svarUp hai. jisane AtmAke svarUpako pragaT kiyA hai, vah dev-guru-shAstra bhI pUjanIy hai. aur shubhabhAvamen dev-guru-shAstrakI mahimA, bhItaramen gnAyak bhagavAn paramapAriNAmikabhAvasvarUp pUjanIy hai, usako pahachAnanA.

mumukShu- mAtAjI! jis jAnanakriyAmen AtmA jAnanemen AtI hai, vah jAnanakriyA kisake AdhArase pragaT hotI hai?

samAdhAna- vah jAnanakriyA AtmAke-gnAyak-gnAtAke-AdhArase jAnanakri/yA hotI hai, koI parake AdhArase nahIn hotI hai. jo gnAyak gnAtA hai, is gnAtAmense gnAnakI kriyA pragaT hotI hai. jAnanakriyA. ananta kAlase kartRutvabuddhi, parakA main kartA hUn, par merA kArya hai, vibhAvakA kartA hUn. svabhAvakA kartA hove, gnAyakatA pragaT hove to usamen jAnan kriyA pragaT hotI hai. main jAnanevAlA AtmA hUn. usakI jAnanakriyA, jAnanakriyArUp pariNati AtmA gnAyakake AdhArase pragaT hotI hai. kartRutvabuddhi... asthiratA alpa rahatI hai, usakI kartRutvabuddhi svAmItvabuddhi chhUT jAtI hai aur gnAyakatA pragaT hotI hai. gnAtAdhArA jAnanakriyA pragaT hotI hai. svarUp pariNati, svarUpakI svAnubhUti pragaT hotI hai. usamen jAnanakriyA nirantar chalatI hai.

mumukShu- svAnubhUtikI mukhyatA to sukhakI...?

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samAdhAna- usamen Ananda guNakI mukhyatA hai. ananta guN, sarvaguNAnsh so samyagdarshana. sarva guNakA ansh shuddharUp pariNamit hotA hai. AnandakI mukhyatA hove to bhI anantAse bharA huA AtmA, usakA vedan usamen A jAtA hai.

mumukShu- mAtAjI! jis jAnanakriyAmen AtmA jAnanemen AtA hai, vah jAnanakriyA vibhAvako kyA paragney tarIke jAnatI hai? jaise bhInt judI hai, aisA rAg judA hai, aise vah gnaptikriyA jAnatI hai?

samAdhAna- bhInt to paradravya hai. rAg to apanI vibhAvik pariNati hai. vibhAv pariNati hai, vah koI apekShAse par hai. aur vibhAvakI pariNati apane puruShArthakI mandatAse hotI hai. isaliye vah to svabhAvabhed hai. vah main nahIn hUn. bhInt main nahIn hUn, aise rAg main nahIn hUn. svabhAvakA bhed karatI hai. parantu rAg hotA hai apane puruShArthakI mandatAse. vah jAnatA hai ki puruShArthakI mandatAse vah rAg hotA hai. parantu jAnatA hai ki vah svabhAv nahIn hai, bhedagnAn karatA hai. jaise yah par hai, vaise yah bhI par hai. parantu vah puruShArthakI mandatAse ashuddha pariNati hotI hai, aise jAnatA hai.

jisakA jaisA kArya hai, vaisA vah jAnatA hai. jAnanakriyA jAnatI hai ki yah par hai, merA svabhAv nahIn hai. aisA gnAnamen rahatA hai, mere puruShArthakI mandatAse (hotA hai). sampUrNa vItarAgatA ho jAy, vItarAg dashA ho jAy to rAgakI kriyA bhI chhUT jAtI hai. rAgakA main kartA nahIn hUn to bhI asthiratA hotI hai, puruShArthakI kamajorIse hotI hai. vah koI kar nahIn detA hai. hotA hai, apanI mandatAse hotA hai, aise jAnatA hai.

mumukShu- hai to apanI paryAyamen pariNaman, par antarmukh huA gnAn usamen vyApatA nahIn hai, avagAhan karatA nahIn hai.

samAdhAna- ... nahIn hai, isaliye usakA bhed karatA hai ki rAg main nahIn hUn, gnAn main hUn, rAg main nahIn hUn, aisA bhed karatA hai. parantu jAnatA hai, vah hotA hai puruShArthakI mandatAse. vah merA svabhAv nahIn hai, isaliye vah par hai. puruShArthakI mandatAse hotA hai.

mumukShu- antarmukh gnAnamen anAkul gnAnakA svAd aur Akulit vibhAvakA svAd ek samayamen .... se bhAsit hotA hai? judA-judA.

samAdhAna- judA-judA. jitane anshamen anAkulatA pragaT huyI, savikalpa dashAmen, svAnubhUtike bAd jo savikalpa dhArA rahatI hai, usamen Anshik anAkulatA rahatI hai aur AkulatA, aspa asthiratA AkulatA bhI rahatI hai. dononko jAnatA hai. donon vedan hote hain. anAkulatA aur AkulatA. jitane anshamen nirAkulatA hai, shAntikA vedan hai, usako shAnti, samAdhi, nirAkulatA usako bhI vedan karatA hai aur alpa rAg hai usako

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bhI jAnatA hai. donon-gnAnadhArA aur udayadhArA ekasAth chalatI hai.

mumukShu- kabhI kahate hain ki mAtAjI! vedanamen Aye vahI AtmA hai, kabhI kahate hain, trikAlI dravya vahI AtmA hai. vedanamen Aye vah AtmA, dravya vah AtmA nahIn.

samAdhAna- vah to apekShAse kahate hain. vedanamen AtA hai isaliye vah jaisA hai vaisA vedanamen AtA hai. aise paryAy apekShAse (kahanemen AtA hai). bAkI anAdiananta jo gnAyak svabhAv hai vahI AtmA hai.

mumukShu- vyavahAranayase kathanI kahI?

samAdhAna- paryAyakA vedan aur dravya (kahA vah) dUsarI apekShAse (kahanemen AtA hai) ki anAdiananta AtmA hai vah dravya.

mumukShu- samyagdarshan-gnAn-chAritrANi mokShamArga matalab usamen ... kyA hono chAhiye?

samAdhAna- usamen ramaNatA nahIn huI na. gnAyakakI dRuShTi kI, gnAn kI. usakI ramaNatA, usakI chAritrakI dashA-vItarAgatA pragaT honI chAhiye. samyagdarshan pragaT huA, gnAn kiyA bAdamen ramaNatA pragaT hotI hai, svarUp ramaNatA. vItarAg dashA pragaT hotI hai.

mumukShu- samyagdarshan, samyaggnAn aur samyakachAritra prApta karaneke bAd bhI yah jarUrI hai ki ...

samAdhAna- pUrNa prApti ho jAy bAdamen to kuchh nahIn rahatA. bAdamen nahIn rahatA. alpa chAritra hai, alpa svarUp ramaNatA hai.

mumukShu- abhI svAmIjI to hamAre sAmane nahIn hai, lekin kahate hain ki jab koI tIrthankar hon yA ... jaise ki ham log bolate hain ki kAnajIsvAmI mokShagAmI jIv the. kAnajIsvAmIko kaise mAlUm paDA ki vah mokShagAmI jIv hain? jaise apane purANamen AyA ki unhonne darpaNake sAmane dekhA to unako apane pUrva bhavakA janma dikhAyI diyA. vaise kAnajIsvAmIko kab anubhav huA ki vah mokShagAmI jIv hai?

samAdhAna- kAnajIsvAmIko antar svAnubhUti huI.

mumukShu- magar kabhI usakA ek paryAyArthik samay AtA hai, abhI jaise koI bhI mokShagAmI jIv to ho sakatA hai, koI bhI ho sakatA hai, ham bhI ho sakate hain, ye bhI ho sakate hain, ye bhI ho sakate hain, magar unakA ek kAl AyagA-ak samay AyagA tabhI unako mahesUs hogA, nahIn to aise nahIn ho sakatA.

samAdhAna- puruShArtha karake usako svAnubhUti hotI hai, vah jAn sakatA hai ki main mokShagAmI hUn.

mumukShu- ye to nishchit hai ki kAnajIsvAmI gurudev mokShagAmI jIv the. ye to

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nishchit hai. unake jAneke bAd unhonne kabhI koI mArgadarshan diyA. unake jAneke bAd, matalab ve hamAre bIchamen nahIn hai, usake bAda. ... usake bAd kabhI unhonne kuchh bhI chAhe vah pojhiTi sAID ho yA negeTiv sAID ho, vah pUchhanA hai, vah jAnanekA..

samAdhAna- paramparAkI kyA bAt hai? upadesh unhonne diyA, unhen jAnA..

mumukShu- magar mAtAjI! Ap logonke sambandha to purAne bhI hai to ho sakatA hai ki har insAnase galatI hotI hai, chAhe vah tIrthankar ho, aur mArgadarshan unako guruonse milatA hai. ..

samAdhAna- gurudev tIrthankarakA dravya thA. unhonne sabako mArga batAyA hai.

mumukShu- main Apako yah batA rahA hUn ki unake jAneke bAd koI chIjamen aisA..?

samAdhAna- .. unako koI ichchhA hI nahIn thI. gurudevako koI ichchhA nahIn thI.

mumukShu- unake anusAr unakA bhI ek vAkya hai, yah unhonne bolA ki main dIkShA isaliye nahIn dilAtA hUn ki main is rUpamen nahIn AyA hUn, matalab tIrthankar rUpamen nahIn AyA hUn. matalab unakA vah pArTa to bAkI hai na?

samAdhAna- unako koI ichchhA bAkI nahIn thI. ve to apanA kArya karate the. vANI chhUTatI thI, sabako lAbh milatA thA.

mumukShu- phir unhonne Apake liye..

samAdhAna- unako koI ichchhA nahIn thI, bAhar koI ichchhA nahIn thI. sab jIv mokSha prApta kare, aisA prashasta rAg AtA hai to vANI chhUT jAtI hai. bAdamen unako vah vichAr nahIn AtA hai.

mumukShu- Apake pAs usake bAd kabhI nahIn Aye? kisI bhI rUpamen-sapaneke rUpamen, sAkShAt rUpamen, kisI bhI rUpamen.

samAdhAna- svapna Aye to usamen kyA hai?

mumukShu- mokShagAmI jIvakA svapna Aye to usamen bahut .. in logonko svapnamen hI bolate the. unako koI sAmAne Akar nahIn bolatA thA. sapanemen bolate the. mAtAko solah svapna Aye, usake bAd trishalA mAtA..

samAdhAna- vah to ek AgAhI hotI hai ki sapanA dekhakar yah tIrthankarakA jIv AyA hai.

mumukShu- vahI matalab hai merA.

samAdhAna- yah pUchhanekA kyA matalab hai?

mumukShu- bahut lAbh hai. apaneko yah lAbh hai ki apanI paripATI kIdhar chalanevAlI hai. kyonki isake bAd jo main ... vah ye hai ki Aj jo ham sthiti dekhate hain,

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vAstavik sthiti dekhate hain, main digambar hUn, magar main...

mumukShu- .. sapanA AyegA vah mAnenge? ... Ap bhI nahIn mAnate hain. sapanA to manokalpanA hai, aisA kahenge. usamen kuchh nahIn hai. AtmAkI karo, aisI koI jhanjhaTamen mat paDo.

samAdhAna- gurudevane jo kiyA, bahutonko jAgRut kiye hain. hindustAnake logonko adhyAtmakI ... pariNati bahut logonkI ho gayI hai. (jisakI) nahIn huyI, usakI yogyatA. bAkI jisakI lAyakAt thI, to bahut logonko adhyAtma, AtmAkA vichAr karanevAle bahut ho gaye. bahut sAl pahale to sab kriyAkAnDamen the. aisA thoDA kar liyA, shuddhi kar lI, ashuddhi kar lI, itanA pATh paDh liyA, aisA kar liyA, isamen sab paDe the. gurudevake pratApase adhyAtmake shAstra, adhyAtmakA vAnchan, adhyAtma svarUp.. aisA bahut karane lag gaye. bahut logonkA parivartan ho gayA.

mumukShu- ek jagah kahanemen AtA hai ki, paryAy apane ShaTakArakase utpanna hotI hai aur ek jagah kahanemen AtA hai ki, apane dravyake AdhArase utpanna hotI hai. to in do nirNayamen kaun-sA nirNay joradAr hai jisamen ham AtmAkA lakShya kar sake?

samAdhAna- AtmAkA lakShya karanA. to paryAy us or A jAtI hai. AtmAkI dravyadRuShTike Ashrayase paryAy usamen A jAtI hai. shuddha paryAy usamen pragaT hotI hai. vah paryAy svatantra, amuk apekShAse svatantra hai. bAkI dravya to ananta sAmarthyase bharA hai to jitanA vah dravya svatantra hai, utanI hI paryAyako svatantra kahanA vah to apane svabhAvase hai athavA amuk apekShAse usake ShaTakArak kahanemen Ate hain, to bhI paryAyako dravyakA Ashray to rahatA hai. paryAyako dravyakA Ashray to hai. jis or dravyakI pariNati hotI hai us or paryAy palaT jAtI hai. dRuShTi bAhar jAtI ho to us or paryAy jAtI hai. dRuShTi shuddhAtmAmen jAtI hai to us or paryAy jAtI hai. isaliye dravyakA Ashray to paryAyamen rahatA hai. jitanA dravya svatantra hai, paryAyamen utanA pharka hai ki ShaTakArak hai to bhI dravyakA Ashray paryAyamen rahatA hai. paryAyako dravyakA Ashray to rahatA hai.

mumukShu- lakShya dravyakA hotA hai? samAdhAna- lakShya to dravyakA hotA hai, paryAyakA lakShya nahIn hotA. mumukShu- aur utpattikI apekShAse dravyake sAth paryAyakI utpatti hotI hai? samAdhAna- jis or dravyakI dRuShTi, us or paryAy hotI hai. paryAy svatantra us apekShAse (kahate hain ki), paryAyakA svarUp svatantra hai. isaliye paryAy svatantra hai. bAkI paryAyamen Ashray to dravyakA rahatA hai. Uparase paryAy hotI hai kiyA? gnAnakI paryAy, darshanakI paryAy, chaitanyakI chaitanyarUp paryAy, vah paryAy Uparase utpanna nahIn hotI.

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use dravyakA Ashray hai.

isaliye dravyakI svatantratA aur paryAyakI svatantratAmen pharka hai. usake ShaTakArak aur isake ShaTakArakamen pharka hai. dravya svatantra svatase hai. vaise paryAyako to dravyakA Ashray hai. usake ShaTakArak samajhanA hai to us prakArase samajhanA ki dravyake Ashray binA paryAy Uparase nahIn hotI.

mumukShu- chandubhAIne kahA ki Uparase rAg hotA hai. mumukShu- .. AtmAkA bhI nahIn sakate aur pudagalakA bhI nahIn kah sakate, svayamne nayA khaDA kiyA hai.

samAdhAna- svayam nayA hai. apanA svabhAv nahIn hai. svayam juDatA hai. AkAshake phUlako koI Ashray nahIn hai, aise nahIn. ... puruShArthakI mandatAse hotA hai. pharka hai. paryAy hai (usako) dravyakA Ashray hotA hai. rAgakI bAt alag hai. apanA svabhAv nahIn hai.

mumukShu- paryAyakA vedan hotA hai, Alamban nahIn hotA. aur dhruvakA Alamban hotA hai, dravyakA vedan nahIn hotA.

samAdhAna- usakA Alamban hai, paryAyakA vedan hai.

mumukShu- sab vidvAnonko, paNDitonko sabako bahut saral bhAShAmen bol diyA. upakAr hai, mAtAjI! ananta upakAr hai.

mumukShu- siddha bhagavAnako jo avyAbAdh Ananda pragaT huA, chauthe guNasthAnamen kyA siddha jaisA hI sukh pragaT hotA hai?

samAdhAna- chaturtha guNasthAnamen siddha bhagavAn jaisA hI sukh (pragaT hotA hai). Anshik siddha bhagavAn jaisA. jAti to ek hai. siddha bhagavAnako pUrNa pragaT huA hai, vah ansh hai. jAti to jaisA siddha bhagavAnakA svarUp hai, vaisA ansh pragaT hotA hai. dravya to siddha bhagavAn jaisA hai. siddha bhagavAnakA jo svabhAv hai, vaisA hI svabhAv AtmAkA hai. parantu pragaT hotA hai vah ansh pragaT hotA hai.

mumukShu- AnandakA svAd Anshik rUpamen AtA hai. samAdhAna- ansh AtA hai, parantu siddha bhagavAn jaisA hI hai. bhedagnAnakI dhArA bhItaramen pragaT kar kShaN-kShaNamen main gnAyak chaitanya hUn, ye main nahIn hUn, aisI dhArA pragaT karate-karate vikalpa TUTakar svAnubhUti hotI hai. (usamen) siddha bhagavAnakI jAtikA ansh pragaT hotA hai.