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mumukShuH- ... vyAkhyAn karanA vah to hamArA khurAk hai. us vakta pUjya gurudev vyAkhayAn karate ho us vakta unakI pariNati svabhAvakI or visheSh jhukatI hogI? vyAkhyAn to hamArA khurAk hai.

samAdhAnaH- unako andar jo pariNati apanI a.ntarame.n chalatI thI, us apekShAse bAt thI. bAharase vyAkyAn kare (usase nahI.n), a.ntarakI apanI anek jAtakI pariNati chale, shrutaj~nAn Adi anek jAtakI pariNati chale. svabhAv dashAkI anek jAtakI pariNati chale us apekShAse bAt hai. svAdhyAy, dhyAn vah sab hamArA khurAk hai. vah to unhe.n a.ntarakI pariNati...

mumukShuH- dhruvakA jo gholan chalatA ho, us vakta pariNati visheSh AtmAme.n magna hotI ho, aisA kuCh hai?

samAdhAnaH- aisA usakA artha nahI.n hai. pravachanake samay visheSh aur bAdame.n kam aisA usakA artha nahI.n thA. vah to gurudevakA svAdhyAy Adi sab... svAdhyAy hai vahI hamArI pariNati hai. vyAkhyAn kare, svAdhyAy kare, vA.nchan kare, vah sab hamArA khurAk hai, aise arthame.n hai. akelA pravachan hI, aisA usakA artha nahI.n hai. pariNati jAy, isaliye vyAkhyA khurAk hai, aise. vyAkhyAn... orakA vikalpa thA. andar ghoTan apanA thA. prabhAvanAkA yog, sabako lAbh milanevAlA thA, isaliye unhe.n vyAkhyAnakA vikalpa thA. a.ntarame.n unhe.n svaya.nkI pariNati chalatI thI. vyAkhyAn to nimitta thA.

mumukShuH- nirmal dashA vah to AtmAkA..

samAdhAnaH- apramatta dashA yAnI a.ntarakI svAnubhUti.

mumukShuH- vah to AtmAkA svabhAv hai na?

samAdhAnaH- AtmAkA svabhAv, AtmAkI anubhUti. munidashAkI AtmAnubhUti. samyagdarshaname.n anubhUti hotI hai, ye munidashAkI visheSh chAritradashAkI. j~nAn, darshan, chAritrakI ekatArUp pariNati ho, vah apramatta dashA.

mumukShuH- apramatta dashA hai vah to AtmAkA svarUp hai.

samAdhAnaH- AtmAkA svarUp jo anAdiananta hai vah nahI.n, ye pragaT huA svarUp

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hai. anAdiananta svarUp hai vah nahI.n. yah to pragaT pariNatirUp svarUp, anubhUtirUp svarUp hai. anAdiananta svarUp hai vah to hai. lekin ye to anubhUtirUp svarUp munio.nko pragaT huA hai. j~nAn-darshan-chAritra ratnatrayakI ekatArUp pariNati pragaT huyI hai. anubhUtirUpa. visheSh prachur svasa.nvedan, apanA vedan pragaT huA hai. svarUp yAnI usakA vedana. anAdiananta svarUp hai aise nahI.n. usakI vedanarUp pariNati hai, apramatta dashA yAnI. ratnatrayakI ekatA visheSh pragaT huI hai.

mumukShuH- jaise chAritraguNakI paryAyame.n sAdhak dashAme.n do dhArA hotI hai, vaise Ananda guNakI prati samay do dhArA hotI hai yA nahI.n?

samAdhAnaH- AnandaguNakI dhArAme.n do dhArA, aisA nahI.n hotA. Ananda to jo svAnubhUtike vakta pragaT hotA hai, vahI Ananda hai. bAkI use hameshA shAnti-samAdhikA vedan hotA hai.

mumukShuH- ChaThave.n guNasthAname.n sukhaguNakI paryAy sa.npUrNa duHkharUp pariNamatI hai?

samAdhAnaH- ChaThave.n guNasthAname.n chAritrakI jo paryAy hai, vah chAritrakI paryAy amuk rUpase pariNamatI hai. sukharUp pariNamatI hai, duHkharUp nahI.n pariNamatI. chAritra kahI.n chalA nahI.n jAtA, savikalpa dashAme.n. munio.nko chAritra hai.

mumukShuH- aur sukhaguNakI paryAy?

samAdhAnaH- sukhaguNakI paryAy hai. hai parantu jo svAnubhUtikA Ananda hai, us jAtakI yah paryAy nahI.n hai. svAnubhUtikA Ananda hai us jAtakI paryAyakI nahI.n hai. chAritra dashA to hai. svAnubhUtime.n pragaT hotI hai. savikalpa dashAme.n sukharUp to pariNamatA hai. sukhak vedan to hotA hai. samyagdR^iShTiko bhI sukhakA vedan hotA hai. aur munio.nko to chAritra hai isaliye visheSh sukhakA vedan savikalpa dashAme.n hotA hai. sukhakI paryAy, AnandakI paryAy use kahate hai.n, bAkI vah Ananda alag aur yah sukh dono.n alag vastu hai. sukhakI paryAy kahate hai.n, bAkI dono.n alag hai. AnandaguN aur sukhaguN, sab ek apekShAse kahate hai.n, bAkI AnandaguN aur sukhaguN dono.n bhinna-bhinna hai.n.

samAdhAnaH- ... usame.n ananta guN hai.n. usame.n us guNako paryAy kahate hai.n aur usI guNako guN kahate hai.n. aisA AtA hai. j~nAn aur darshan do guN kahate hai.n. chetanAkI do paryAy koI jagah kahaneme.n AtA hai. aisA bhI AtA hai. ek chetanAguNa. usame.n j~nAn aur darshan do. dono.nko paryAy kahate hai.n, lekin do guN hai.n. do guN bhI kahaneme.n bhI Aye, dono.n guN joradAr hai. asAdhAraN guN hai. samuchchayarUpase use chetanAguN kah dete hai.n. vaise chAritra, sukh aur Ananda. Ananda guN bhI kahate hai.n aur Anandako paryAy bhI kahate hai.n. sab kah sakate hai.n.

mumukShuH- ... satpuruShake charaNakamalakI vinayopAsanAke binA prApta nahI.n kar sakatA.

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yah nirgrarrntha bhagavAnakA sarvotkR^iShTa vachanAmR^it hai.

samAdhAnaH- hindI hai?

mumukShuH- jI hA.N, Apako gujarAtI (kahatA hU.N). paramAtmAkA dhyAn .. parantu AtmA vah dhyAnako satpuruShake charaNakamalakI vinayopAsanA binA prApta nahI.n kar sakatA. yah nirgrarrntha bhagavAnakA sarvotkR^iShTa vachan hai.

samAdhAnaH- paramAtmAkA dhyAn karanese paramAtmA huA jAtA hai. paramAtmA kaun hai? paramAtmAkA svarUp kyA hai? paramAtmAkA dhyAn karane paramAtmA huA jAtA hai. paramAtmA, dravya svaya.n paramAtmA hai. usakA dhyAn kaise karanA? usakA kyA svarUp hai? vah batAye kaun? satpuruShakI charaN-upAsanAke binA vah ho sakatA nahI.n. vah svarUp kaun batAye? paramAtmA kise kahate hai.n? paramAtmAkA svarUp kyA hai? usakA dhyAn kaise kiyA jAy? vah sAdhakadashA, sAdhya, vah sab satpuruShakI charaN-upAsanA binA ho sakatA nahI.n.

vah mArga satpuruSh batAte hai.n. anAdikA anajAnA mArga hai. vah svaya.n apaneAp apanI kalpanAse.. paramAtmA kise kahaneme.n AtA hai, vah samajhe binA dhyAn kare to shrImadajI hI kahate hai.n, dhyAn tara.ngarUp ho jAtA hai. us dhyAname.n anek jAtake vikalpa.. vikalpa (chalate hai.n). vikalpa manda kare lekin jo yathArtha chaitanyakA astitva hai, use grahaN na kare to dhyAn ho sakatA nahI.n. ek chaitanyako lakShyame.n lekar usame.n upayogako sthir kare to dhyAn jamatA hai, nahI.n to dhyAn jamatA nahI.n. satpuruSh jo batAte hai.n ki tU svaya.n hI paramAtmA hai. terA dravya svaya.n paramAtmAsvarUp hI hai. tU j~nAyak svaya.n paramAtmA hai. paramAtmAkA svarUp batAye, us par dR^iShTi sthApit kar, usame.n terI lInatA kar to yathArtha ... vah mArga satpuruSh darshAte hai.n.

satpuruShakI upAsanA binA, satpuruSh jo batAte hai.n us mArgako grahaN kiye binA dhyAn ho nahI.n sakatA. apanI kalpanAse dhyAn nahI.n ho sakatA. dhyAn AtmAko pahichAne binA (hotA nahI.n). us AtmAkI pahichAn kaun karavAye? satpuruSha. jinho.nne mArgako jAnA hai, jisane mArgako sAdhA hai, aise satpuruSh us mArgako darshAte hai.n. isaliye satpuruSh jo kahate hai.n use grahaN karanA. ve kyA Ashay kahanA chAhate hai.n? paramAtmA kise kahate hai.n, yah satpuruSh batAte hai.n.

nahI.n to jIv to anAdi kAlase paramAtmA yAnI.. jo paramAtmA hai vah chaitanyasvarUp paramAtmA hai, yah samajhatA nahI.n. parantu dUsare paramAtmAko paramAtmA samajhatA hai. vah paramAtmA jisane pUrNa svarUp prApta kiyA vah paramAtmA barAbara. lekin vah paramAtmA bhI aisA hI kahate hai.n ki tU svaya.n paramAtmA hai, usakA dhyAn kara. svaya.n paramAtmasvarUp hai usakA

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dhyAn karanese paramAtmA huA jAtA hai. vah mArga satpuruSh batAte hai.n.

satpuruShakI vinay upAsanA. jo satpuruSh kahe use grahaN kare aur satpuruShako vinayase ve jo mArga batAte hai.n, usakA Ashay grahaN kare, use vinayase sune, shravaN karake andar grahaN kare to prApta hotA hai. sva mati kalpanAse prApta nahI.n hotA. unakA vinay, unakI bhakti, hR^idayame.n bahumAn ho to vah pragaT hotA hai. sva mati kalpanAse artha kare ki ise kahate hai.n yA ise paramAtmA kahate hai.n, aise vah prApta nahI.n hotA. satpuruShakA Ashay barAbar grahaN kare. vinayase, bhaktise ki ve kyA kahanA chAhate hai.n? koI apUrva mArga guru batA rahe hai.n. gurune jo apUrvatA batAyI, us apUrvatAko svaya.n barAbar vinayase samajhe to prApta hotA hai.

svaya.n dhyAn karane jAy to dhyAn jamatA bhI nahI.n hai. paramAtmA kise kahate hai.n, yah yathArtha grahaN kiye binA dhyAn (hotA nahI.n). nij astitva grahaN kiye binA dhyAn jam nahI.n sakatA. dhyAn tara.ngarUp ho paDatA hai. dhyAn anAdi kAlame.n kiyA, bahut bAr dhyAn kiyA, vikalpa manda hue, dhyAname.n kuCh ekAgratA huyI parantu AtmA grahaN nahI.n huA, to dhyAn tara.ngarUp ho paDA. kuCh lAbh nahI.n huA. satpuruShake vinayase unho.nne jo kahA vah grahaN karanese paramAtmA pahichAne jAte hai.n, paramAtmAkA dhyAn hotA hai. sab satpuruShake charaName.n vinay aur bhaktise unake vachano.nko grahaN karanese hotA hai.

mumukShuH- bhakti kaisI?

samAdhAnaH- bhakti to svaya.n mahimA kare. bAharase bhakti kare aisA artha nahI.n hai. a.ntarame.n bahumAn AnA chAhiye. unake vachan par sarva prakArase bahumAn AnA chAhiye. arpaNatA honI chAhiye. ve kahate hai.n barAbar hai, unho.nne jo mArga kahA hai vah barAbar hai. is tarah svaya.n svaya.nse nakkI karake bahumAn AnA chAhiye. svaya.n vichAr karake nakkI kare ki ye satpuruSh hai.n aur koI apUrva mArga batA rahe hai.n. phir jo bhI kahe.n vah barAbar hai. aise svaya.n a.ntarame.nse us jAtakA bahumAn, us tarah hR^idayame.n bhakti AnI chAhiye.

mumukShuH- dUsare koI j~nAnIke prati idhar-udharake vikalpa Ate ho to use j~nAnIkA bahumAn yA bhakti a.ntarame.n nahI.n hai.

samAdhAnaH- nahI.n, idhar-udharake vikalpa Aye to vah bhakti nahI.n hai. jo guru kahate hai.n vah barAbar hI hai. phir usakA hR^iday arpaN ho jAtA hai. unakI bhakti aur mahimAse.. jo guru sAdhak dashA sAdh rahe hai.n usame.nse nikalI huyI vANI aur sAdhakatAke jo-jo kArya ho.n vah sab use bahumAnarUp hI grahaN karatA hai, anyathA grahaN nahI.n karatA.

mumukShuH- use usame.n sha.nkA na paDe.. us jAtakI taiyArI..

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samAdhAnaH- us jAtakI taiyArI, a.ndarase bahumAn, bhaktivAleko ho jAtA hai. usame.n kuCh Ashay hogA, usame.n kuCh hit hogA, aisA artha grahaN karatA hai. aisA dikhatA honeke bAvajUd aisA kahate hai.n, usame.n kuCh hit yA Ashay gurukA hai, is tarah svaya.n grahaN karatA hai. usame.n kuCh mere hitake liye athavA kuCh Ashay hai, aisA artha grahaN karatA hai.

mumukShuH- jain darshaname.n guru-shiShyakA aisA hI mel hogA?

samAdhAnaH- aisA hI hotA hai. jinakI pariNati sAdhakatAkI or gayI, jo muktike mArga par guru pariNamate hai.n, unake jo kArya hai vah sab lAbharUp aur hitarUp hI hai. aise shiShyako arpaNatA A jAtI hai.

mumukShuH- .. svachChandame.n jAtA hai?

samAdhAnaH- vah sab svachChandame.n jAtA hai. apanI kachAs hai.

mumukShuH- tabatak tattva prApta nahI.n kar sakatA?

samAdhAnaH- mushkil hai.

mumukShuH- to bhI kAryakArI nahI.n hotA?

samAdhAnaH- dhAraNAj~nAnase nahI.n lekin a.ntar bahumAn aur ruchise Age baDhA jAtA hai. prayojanabhUt tattva grahaN kare, lekin andar bahumAn aur ruchi ho to vah Age baDhatA hai.

mumukShuH- bAharame.n j~nAnIke prati bahumAn aur a.ntarame.n AtmAkI ruchi.

samAdhAnaH- j~nAnIke prati bahumAn aur a.ntarame.n tattvakI ruchi. in dono.nkA sambandha hai.

mumukShuH- ek ho vahA.N avinAbhAvI dUsarA ho hI. AtmAkI ruchi ho use j~nAnIke prati bahumAn hotA hI hai.

samAdhAnaH- a.ntarakI ruchi ho use j~nAnIke prati bahumAn hotA hI hai. aisA sambandha hai. a.ntarakI ruchi ho aur guruke prati bahumAn na ho, aisA nahI.n banatA. to usakI ruchime.n kachAs hai. to apanI buddhi-kalpanAse sab nakkI karatA hai, usame.n usakI ruchikI kachAs hai. jise prApta karanekI ruchi hai, usame.n guuru kyA kahate hai.n? guru prati arpaNatA sAthame.n hotI hI hai. mai.n jAn nahI.n sakatA hU.N, mai.n jis mArga par jA rahA hU.N, vah mArga mujhe pragaT nahI.n hai, jinho.nne pragaT kiyA un par arpaNatA (hotI hai) aur ve kyA kahate hai.n? us prakArakA vinay aur bhakti usake hR^idayame.n hote hI hai.n. svaya.n jAn nahI.n sakatA hai aur jinho.nne jAnA hai unake prati bahumAn nahI.n hai to usame.n us jAtakI kachAs hai.

mumukShuH- gurudevake shiShyo.nme.n to bahubhAg aisA hI lagatA hai ki dhAraNAj~nAn to

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bahut spaShTa hai, bahuto.nko hai, phir bhI prApta nahI.n kar sakate hai.n usako aisA hI koI svachChanda apanA hogA, aisA lagatA hai. mai.n to merI apanI bAt karatA hU.N. aisA lagatA hai ki abhI bhI aisA kuCh na kuCh (svachChanda chal rahA hai).

samAdhAnaH- jo jij~nAsu hai vah apanI hI kShati khojatA hai ki merI kahI.n na kahI.n kShati hai. isaliye merA puruShArtha uThatA nahI.n hai. merI kahI.n kShati hai. apanI kShati khojanevAlA hI Age baDh sakatA hai. dUsarekI kShati khojanevAlA Age nahI.n baDh sakatA. apanI kShati khoje vahI Age baDhatA hai.

mumukShuH- dUsarA kuCh mat khoj, bIju.n kA.NI shodhIsh nahI.n, mAtra ek satpuruShako khoj aur unake charaNakamalame.n sarva bhAv arpaN karake pravR^itti karatA raha. sarva bhAv arpaN karake pravR^itti karatA raha. sarva bhAv yAnI? sarva arpaNatA? sarva prakArakI.

samAdhAnaH- sarva prakArakI arpaNatA. guru jo kahate hai.n vah sab arpaNatA. usame.n bIchame.n apanI kalpanA, bIchame.n apanI koI hoshiyArI nahI.n. guru kahate hai.n vah sab arpaNatA. apanI hoshiyArI yA apanI mati kalpanAse kuCh nakkI nahI.n karanA, guru jo kahe vaise. apane sarva bhAv arpaNa. jo kahe vah use mAnya hai. mujhe samajhame.n nahI.n AtA hai. svaya.n samajhanekA prayatna karatA hai. bAkI jo guru kahate hai.n vah barAbar hai. merI apanI kachAs hai. shrImad to vahA.N tak kahate hai.n na, guruko sarva bhAv arpaN kar de, phir mukti na mile to mere pAsase le jAnA. aisA kahate haiai.n.

mumukShuH- isake bAtakA vAkya hai.

mumukShuH- vah barAbar hai?

samAdhAnaH- mere pAsese le jAnA, usakA artha yah hai ki tujhe mukti milegI hI. sarva bhAv arpaN kar de arthAt tU j~nAtA ho jA, isaliye tujhe mukti milegI hI. sarva bhAv arpaN kara. koI bhAv nahI.n, sabakA svAmItva ChoD de, sab guruko arpaNa. isaliye tujhe svaya.nko bhedaj~nAn ho jAyagA. tU svaya.n j~nAtA ho jAyagA, mukti milegI hI. mere pAsase le jAnA, usakA artha hI yah hai ki tujhe milegI hI. nishchit kahate hai.n.

mumukShuH- .. phir bhI aisA to lagatA hai ki kuCh na kuCh kachAs abhI bhI rahatI hai.

samAdhAnaH- kahI.n na kahI.n apanI kachAs hai. der lage, usame.n apane pramAdakA kAraN ho, kahI.n rukatA ho vah kAraN ho, apanI samajhame.n kachAs ho, anek jAtakI kachAs hotI hai. bahumAnakI, anek prakArakI kachAs hotI hai. gurukI arpaNatAkI, samajhakI, puruShArthakI, anek prakArakI kachAs (hotI hai).