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mumukShu- .. gnAn honekA ek hI samay hai?

samAdhAna- dononkA ek hI samay hai. Asravako nivRutti aur gnAnaghan AtmAkA honA, donon ekasAth hI hotA hai. Asrav nivRutte usakA matalab kuchh pragaT hotA hai. yahAn gnAnaghan AtmA gnAyak ho, isaliye vahAnse Asrav nivRutta hote hain. donon ekasAth hI hotA hai. usamen koI kram nahIn paDatA hai. AsravokI nivRutti aur AtmAkI pragaTatA, donon ekasAth hI hai. usamen kram nahIn paDatA hai. pahale Asrav nivRutta ho usake bAd gnAn ho, aisA nahIn hai. is or nivRutta huA, yahAn gnAn hotA hai. gnAnaghan AtmA pragaT hotA hai aur Asravase nivRutta hotA hai, donon ek hI samayamen hotA hai. ek hI kShaNamen. yahAn astimen svayam pragaT hotA hai aur us or nAstimen Asravase nivRutta hotA hai.

mumukShu- mithyAtva aur anantAnubandhike viShayamen kuchh..

samAdhAna- mithyAtva arthAt usakI dRuShTi jUThI hai. parapadArthake sAth ekatvabuddhi kar rahA hai. par sharIr so main aur main so sharIr, aisI bhrAnti andar hai. yah vikalpa hote hain, vah bhI mere hain (aisI) ekatvabuddhi (hai). svayam bhinna hai, usakA kuchh bhAn nahIn hai. vah mithyAtva hai. vah antaramen pariNatimen usakA mithyAtva hai.

aur anantAnubandhi kaShAy use itanA tIv ho ki use AtmA orakI ruchi nahIn ho, AtmAkI bAt kare to ruche nahIn, aisA. AtmAkI aruchi, us prakArakA krodh, us prakArakA mAn, us prakArakI mAyA, vah anantAnubandhi kaShAy hai. aur bAharamen use mithyAtvamen jUThe dev-guru-shAstrako grahaN kare to vah bhI mithyAtva hai. vah grahit mithyAtva hai. aur yah andarakA mithyAtva hai.

jUThe dev ki jisako vItarAgatA pragaT nahIn huyI hai use dev mAne. jo AtmAkI sAdhanA nahIn karate hain usako guru mAne. jis shAstramen AtmAkI bAt nahIn AtI hai, aise shAstrako mAne. vItarAgI shAstra, vItarAg guru, vItarAg dev hone chAhiye. anya- anya dev mAne, anya guru mAne, anya shAstra mAne to vah gRuhit mithyAtva hai.

mumukShu- sampradAyakI mithyAtvakI samajh..

PDF/HTML Page 684 of 1906
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samAdhAna- mithyAtva isI prakArakA hai. mithyAtva to ek hI prakArakA hai. jUThI bhrAnti. jUThe dev-guru-shAstrako mAne aur antaramen sharIrake sAth ekatvabuddhi vah bhI mithyAtva hai. vibhAvake sAth (ekatvabuddhi). usakI samajhan bhinna-bhinna nahIn hai. vah to koI artha alag kare, samajhan alag (hotI hai).

mumukShu- sampradAyamen aisA hai ki ... Apako shivako nahIn mAno to vah mithyAtva hai.

samAdhAna- vah svayamko vichAranA chAhiye ki satya kyA hai? sab sampradAyavAle alag-alag kahe. sachche dev, sachche guru kaun hai usakA svayamko vichAr karanA paDatA hai. jise AtmAkI jignAsA ho vah svayam hI vichAr kar letA hai ki sachche dev, sachche guru, sachche shAstra kise kahate hain. vah svayamko hI vichAranA paDatA hai. sab sampradAyavAle to.. jahAn svayam janma dhAraN karatA hai, jIv jahAn janma dhAraN karatA hai vahAn svayam apanA mAn letA hai ki is dharmamen mainne janma liyA hai isaliye yah merA satya hai. aur us dharmamen aisA Aye ki kRiShNako mAno, shivako mAno, isako na mAno, vah to mithyAtva hai. sab sampradAyavAle aisA kahe to svayamko vichAr karake nakkI karanA paDatA hai ki satya kyA hai? vah to nakkI karanA paDatA hai.

mumukShu- Apta puruShane kahA huA vachan mAnanA, to Apta puruSh kise mAnanA?

samAdhAna- Apta kaun hai, vah svayamko nakkI karanA paDatA hai. shrImadamen AtA hai na? ki jignAsuke netra satpuruShako pahachAn lete hain. usakA hRuday us prakArakA ho jAtA hai ki satya kyA hai, aisI antaramense use jignAsA pragaT hotI hai ki satya kyA hai? sachche guru kaun hai? vah svayam hI unakI vANI parase, unakI vANIkA kahAn jor AtA hai? unakA amuk prakArake parichayase nakkI kar letA hai ki yahI sachche dev hain.

mumukShu- jise ruchi hogI vahI Apta puruShako pahachAn sakegA na? jo mithyAtva hai vah pahachAn sakatA hai?

samAdhAna- mithyAtvI ho to bhI jo jignAsu hotA hai, satakA jignAsu ho, bhale mithyAtva hai use, parantu jise satya samajhanekI ruchi hai ki mujhe satya kahAn prApta hogA? satako khojanevAlA, bhale use ekatvabuddhi hai, parantu andarase use jignAsA huyI hai ki mujhe satyA kahAn prApta hogA? vah satyakI parIkShA karanevAlA jo hai vah pahachAn sakatA hai. mithyAtva ho to bhI satpuruShako pahachAn sakatA hai ki yah satpuruSh hai. usakI hRudayakI pAtratA aisI ho jAtI hai ki vah satpuruShako pahachAn letA hai. lekin utanI pAtratA taiyAr honI chAhiye.

mumukShu- .. kahA hai ki banArasIdAsajI jahAn bhUl karate hain vah ham samajh sakate

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hain. unhonne bhUl batAyI nahIn hai.

samAdhAna- samyagdarshanamen unhen bhUl nahIn huyI hai, pahale bhUl huyI hai. pahale bhUl huyI hai. pahale kriyAmen chaDh gaye, phir shuShka ho gaye, ata pahale bhUl huyI hai, bAdamen nahIn huyI hai. pahale-pahale sab bhUl kI hai. pahale bhUl huyI hai.

mumukShu- ...

samAdhAna- mUl tattvamen usakI bhUl nahIn hotI, vastukI samajhamen bhUl nahIn hotI. usakI asthiratA ho, rAg Ave to asthiratA hai. usakI tattvakI samajhamen bhUl nahIn hotI.

mumukShu- usamen to bhUl hotI hI nahIn.

samAdhAna- nahIn, samajhamen bhUl nahIn hotI. use asthiratA hotI hai.

mumukShu- us samay nAsamajh ho sakatI hai?

samAdhAna- nAsamajh nahIn hotI. use rAg ho vah jAnatA hai ki mujhe rAg hotA hai, mere puruShArthakI mandatA hai. andar khed hotA hai ki main gRuhasthAshramamen hUn, mujhe is prakArakA rAg-dveSh Adi hotA hai. lekin yah merA svarUp nahIn hai, main usase bhinna hUn.

mumukShu- tattvamen bhUl nahIn karate.

samAdhAna- tattvamen bhUl nahIn hotI. rAg hotA hai. rAg bhI maryAdA chhoDakar rAg nahIn hotA hai.

mumukShu- kyonki kShaN-kShaNamen ruchi to badalatI rahatI hai. ... jo lakShya huA hai vah nahIn badalatA. dRuShTi nahIn badalatI.

samAdhAna- dRuShTi nahIn badalatI. andar gnAyakako pahachAnA vah nahIn badalatA.

mumukShu- samakitI ho vah laDAImen jAy aur laDAI bhI karatA ho. us vakta use hinsA bhI karanI paDe.

samAdhAna- lekin usakI dRuShTi nahIn badalatI. use aisA hotA hai ki arere..! main isamen-rAjamen baiThA hUn isaliye is kAryameen juDanA paDatA hai. to vah anItise kuchh nahIn karatA hai. mujhe rAjakA rAg hai, isaliye mujhe hinsAmen juDanA paDatA hai. mujhe is rAjakA rAg chhUT jAy to...

mumukShu- hinsAmen juDatA hai?

samAdhAna- hAn, samyagdRuShTi aise kAryamen juDatA hai. samyagdRuShTi rAjA hotA hai, samyagdRuShTi rAjA hotA hai. aise kAryamen juDatA hai. lekin use khed (hotA hai).

mumukShu- mare hueko mAratA hUn, mAnase use aisA nahIn kahe. merA doSh hai aisA

PDF/HTML Page 686 of 1906
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kahe. mare hueko mAratA hUn...

samAdhAna- merA doSh hai, aisA mAnatA hai. merI asthiratA hai ki main chhUT nahIn sakatA hUn. mujhe rAjakA rAg hai. yadi abhI yah rAj chhoD dUn to sab chhUT jAya. main isamen juDatA hUn, yah merA svarUp nahIn hai. mujhe juDanA paDatA hai.

mumukShu- ... kitanI aisI kShaN AtI hai ki jab ... tattvase dUr jAnA paDatA hai.

samAdhAna- tattvase dUr nahIn jAtA hai. use asthiratA hai. tattvase dUr nahIn jAtA. koI use aisA kahe ki terA gnAyak AtmA bhinna nahIn hai, sharIr aur AtmA ek hai, aisA tU bol, to aisA vah nahIn kahate. AkAsh-pAtAl ek hA jAy bhI nahIn kahe.

mumukShu- samakit honeke bAd vah bhUl jAtA hai?

samAdhAna- nahIn, bhUlatA nahIn.

mumukShu- to samayasAramen hI AtA hai.

samAdhAna- puruShArthakI mandatA ho to bhUl jAy, vah to bhUl gayA kahanemen AtA hai. parantu samyagdarshanamen puruShArthakI dhArA hotI hai vah apratihat dhArAse bhUlatA nahIn, bhUlatA nahIn. chyUt ho jAy usakI (bAt alag hai).

mumukShu- samyagdarshan sthir rahatA hai?

samAdhAna- sthir rahatA hai, koI chyUt ho jAy usakI bAt nahIn hai. vah to chyUt ho jAtA hai. koI chyUt ho jAya.

mumukShu- samayasAramen ek aisI gAthA hai...

samAdhAna- .. hAn, vah hai. ... dhArAse uThA huA.. usamen koI chyUt ho jAtA hai.

mumukShu- adhiShThAn ek hai, vah mujhe nahIn baiThatA nahIn thA. vedAntamen ek adhiShThAn kahate hain. chha dravya paDhA to ek adhiShThAn...? vah nahIn baiThA.

samAdhAna- .. koI hotA hI nahIn, svayam hI hai svatantra.

mumukShu- ... svatantra hai. koI..

samAdhAna- svayam svayamkA AdhAr hai. koI kisIkA adhiShThAn nahIn hai. svayam svatantra hai, jaisA karanA ho.

mumukShu- isIlIye jIvako svatantra banAnA hai. abhI jo sanyogIbhAvamen hai, use svatantra banAnA hai.

samAdhAna- vibhAvaparyAyamen svatantra hai. jahAn svayamkI pariNati karanI ho, vahAn svatantra

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hai. nimitta hotA hai, parantu svayam juDe to hotA hai. nimitta yah nahIn kahatA hai ki tU jabaran usamen rAg kar yA isamen dveSh kara. bAharake shabda nahIn kahate hain ki tU shabda sUn yA tU shabda sunakar rAg kar yA dveSh kara. aisA vah koI nahIn kahate hain. shabda nahIn kahate hain, svayam juDatA hai. tU vApas muD jA to jabaran tujhe koI nahIn kahatA hai.

mumukShu- puruShArthakA paDhA vah mujhe bahut yAd AtA hai ki AtmA svayam .. hue binA, bhAvyakA bhAvak hue binA dUrase hI vApas muD jAtA hai.

samAdhAna- dUrase vApas muD jAtA hai. samayasAramen AtA hai. dUsare vApas muD jAtA hai.

mumukShu- .. vahAn puruShArthake darshan hote hain.

samAdhAna- dUrase, andar vibhAvamen juDe binA dUrase vApas muD jAtA hai.

mumukShu- vah vAkya mujhe itanA pasanda A gayA....

samAdhAna- .. gnAyak svayam svatantra, svayam puruShArtha karake dUsare vApas muDatA hai. sab apane hAthakI bAt hai. svayam jitanA karatA nahIn hai, vah apanA pramAd hai. svayam kare to apane hAthakI bAt hai. karma to nimitta hai. nimitta use rokatA nahIn hai. nimitta use rokatA nahIn hai aur nimitta kuchh kahatA bhI nahIn hai ki tU juD jA.

mumukShu- AtmA anAtmA yAnI jaD Upar koI prabhAv DAl sakatA hai?

samAdhAna- par Upar koI prabhAv DAl nahIn sakatA.

mumukShu- jo arihanta, kevalagnAnI hote hain unakI saumyamUrtise unakA bAhya AkAr bhI saumya ho jAtA hai, vah kaise?

samAdhAna- ve svayam andar vItarAg ho gaye, isaliye unakA sharIr bhI us prakArake rajakaN svatantra pariNamate hain.

mumukShu- skandh us prakArake bandhate honge?

samAdhAna- nahIn, usake paramANu vaise badal jAte hain, svatantra. prabhAv nahIn paDatA hai, svatantra apaneAp ho jAtA hai. aisA sambandha hai ki...

mumukShu- ekakShetrAvagAhI isaliye?

samAdhAna- ek kShetramen rahate hain. svayam andar upashamabhAv kare, upashamabhAv ho gayA isaliye shAnta pariNAm ho gaye. jaise koI manuShya krodh kare to usakI mudrAmen krodh dikhatA hai. shAnt manuShyakI shAnt dikhatI hai. vah krodh aur shAnti alag rahate hai. parantu yah to kudaratI ekakShetrAvagAh ekasAth rahe hain, isaliye aisA nimitta-naimittik sambandha hai.

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mumukShu- paramANuko athavA pudagal svayamko arpaN karate hain. aur AtmA dekhatA- jAnatA hai. to rajakaN kevaladarshanIko kaisA arpaN karanA...

samAdhAna- .. aisA usakA gnAn hotA hai, vaisA usakA gney hotA hai. jaisA gney hotA hai, vaisA gnAn hotA hai. vah to sambandha hI hotA hai. use arpaN nahIn karatA. darpaNamen pratibimb dikhate hain. us pratibimbarUp darpaN svayam pariNamatA hai. pratibimb andar pravesh nahIn karate, darpaNake andar pravesh nahIn karate.

mumukShu- vah darpaNakI svachchhatA hai.

samAdhAna- hAn, vah darpaNakI svachchhatA hai. vaise gnAnakI svachchhatA hai ki jaisA gney ho vaise gnAn pariNamatA hai. gnAn pariNamatA hai. vah bAhya gney Akar andar kuchh nahIn karatA hai. aur gnAn vahAn jAkar, darpaN bAhar pratibimbamen jAkar kuchh nahIn karatA hai, vaise gnAn bAhar jAkar gneyonko kuchh nahIn karatA hai.

mumukShu- kevalionkI vANI aisI hotI hai ki ve kahe vaisA hI bane. to vANI to pudagal hai, to usamen aisI kaisI shakti AyI?

samAdhAna- vANI to pudagal hai. parantu jaisA vastukA svarUp hai, vaisI vANI nikalatI hai. dUrase, jaise chumbak hotA hai, vah chumbak sUIko nahIn kahatA hai ki tU yahAn A. aur vah sUIko khInchane bhI nahIn jAtA. aur sUI svatantra AtI hai. aisA nimitta-naimittik sambandha jagatamen pudagalonke (bIch hotA hai). aisA nimitta-naimittik sambandha hai.

mumukShu- lekin vah sambandha nahIn hai.

samAdhAna- vah kuchh karatA nahIn hai. chumbak sUIko kuchh karane nahIn jAtA hai aur sUI chumbakake kAraN khInchI nahIn AtI. usakA svabhAv hI aisA hai. jahAn chumbak ho vahAn sUI Aye. bas, aisA sambandha hI hai. svatantra pariNaman hai.

mumukShu- ...

samAdhAna- bhinna dravya na rahe, yadi usakA prabhAv paDatA ho to.

mumukShu- ... achchhI aspatAl ho to main aspatAl ban jAUn. merI aspatAl,.. main aspatAl ban gayA.

samAdhAna- aspatAl par prabhAv nahIn paDatA.

mumukShu- prabhAv paDe to vah, vah ban jAya. to tIrthankar sharIr ban jAya. tIrthankarane paramANuko saumyA banAyA ho to..

mumukShu- prabhAvakA artha aisA nahIn kar sakate, mAno ham log baiThe hain aur usamen AtmA hI vaise pariNamatA hai. usamen to usako AtmAko kuchh nahIn hai, parantu

PDF/HTML Page 689 of 1906
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svayamkA AtmA svayam vaise pariName. use prabhAv lage hI.

samAdhAna- svayam pariNamatA hai. svayam prabhAvako grahaN karatA hai.

mumukShu- kyonki aisA to bahut jagah dekhate hain ki kisIke prabhAvamen A jAte hain.

samAdhAna- gurudevakI vANI aisI thI ki sunanevAle ekadam sthir ho jAy aur Ashcharyachakit ho jAte. lekin svayamkI aisI lAyakatA hotI hai. vANI nimitta aur andar AtmAkI yogyatA, dononkA sambandha hai.

muumukShu- bahut log kahate hain, mainne to nahIn dekhe hain, parantu gurudevake pAs baiThen aur unakI vANI sune to usakA kuchh alag hI prabhAv paDatA.

mumukShu- koI virodh bhI karate the.

samAdhAna- virodh karanevAle bhI the, virodh karate the. mumbaImen kitanI baDI janasankhyAmen gurudev pravachan karate the. sab Ashcharyachakit ho jAte the ki kuchh AtmAkI bAt karate hain. parantu jIvonkI aisI lAyakAt hotI hai.

mumukShu- mainne kahA vah barAbar hai? ki sAmanevAlA AtmA vaise pariNamatA hai.

samAdhAna- AtmA pariNamatA hai. prabhAv nahIn, AtmA us nimittako prApta karake AtmA svayam pariNamatA hai.

mumukShu- kyonki mainne is prakArakA aisA samAdhAn khoj liyA ki aise..

samAdhAna- bane... to chAval, anAj Adi pake. lekin chAval svayam pakate hain. agni nimitta hai. agni kuchh nahIn karatI, usakI yogyatA hai isaliye hotA hai. jis mungamen namI na ho, vah agni mile to bhI pakate nahIn. vah vaisA hI rahatA hai. isaliye jo koI aise AtmA ho use aise gurukA nimitta mile to bhI ve pakate nahIn. parantu jo aise naram hote hain, vah agnikA nimitta pAkar mung Adi pak jAte hain.

vaise pAtra AtmA ho use gurukI vANI mile vahAn aise pak jAte hain, pariNamit ho jAte hain. lekin koI uparokta mung jaise ho, use kuchh.. abhavya jaise ho use koI asar hI nahIn hotI.