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mumukShu- .. mAtAjIke AshIrvAd mil gaye, jAmanagarakA... hamen to usI din vishvAs ho gayA thA.

samAdhAna- ..kI mahimA pUre jagatamen hai. yah to panchamakAl hai. jinendra pratimA par koI mushkil Aye to devakA Asan chalAyamAn hotA hai. jinendra pratimA koI kam bAt nahIn hai. ye to panchamakAl hai isaliye koI dev nahIn Ate. nahIn to devakA Asan chalAyamAn hotA hai. jinamandir Uparase koI vimAn chalA jAtA ho to vimAn thambh jAtA hai. vimAn chalatA nahIn, yahAn bhagavAnakA mandir hai, main darshan karake jAUn. aise Upar vimAn thambh jAtA hai. aisA kathAmen, purANamen AtA hai.

jinendra pratimAkI AshAtanAkA phal bhI utanA hai, usakI mahimA bhI utanI hai. jinendra pratimAko anjanAne usake shokake dveShake kAraN thoDI bAhar rakhI, usakA pariNAm usame pashchAtAp kiyA, koI ArjikA yA munine upadesh diyA, usane bhagavAnako phirase dhAmadhUmase virAjamAn kiye. pashchAtAp kiyA. to bhI usake anAdarakA kuchh pAp rah gayA. aise prasang Aye ki, usake mAn-bAp ghar par nahIn rakhe, aisA bananA to bahut mushkil hotA hai, mAn-bApane gharase nikAl diyA, phir jangalamen jAnA paDA. pratimAkA anAdar yAnI bhagavAnako mandirase bAhar nikAlanA yAnI mahApApakA kAraN hai. shAstramen, purANamen AtA hai. yah kathAkI bAt nahIn hai, yah purANamen AtA hai.

vah shabda bAr-bAr AtA thA, "ghaT-ghaT antar jin vase, ghaT-ghaT antar jain'. vah shlok pravachanamen bAr-bAr AtA thA. "ghaT-ghaT antar jin vase'. unakA hRuday kahatA thA, "ghaT-ghaT antar jin vase, ghaT-ghaT antar jain', bAr-bAr vah shlok AtA thA. svayam jin honevAle hain. sab bhagavAn AtmA hai (aisA hI kahate the). pratyek AtmA bhagavAn hI hai, parantu gurudevako antar... pratyek AtmA bhagavAn hai. "ghaT-ghaT antar jin vase..' sab ghaTamen jin hI basate hain. ...

mumukShu- .. us vakta mAhol kitanA Anandamay hogA ki yah phattehakumAr tIrthankar honevAle hain, aisI bAt samavasaraNamen chAron or bAt phail gayI thI. ..

samAdhAna- ... yah rAjakumAr bhaviShyamen tIrthankar honevAle hain. bhagavAnakI vANI(men

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AyA ki), yah rAjakumAr bhaviShyamen tIrthankar honevAle hain. vANI samavasaraNamen prasar gayI thI. yah rAjakumAr tIrthankar honevAle hain, (yah sunakar) sabako Ananda huA. samavasaraNamen bAt prasiddha huyI.

mumukShu- ... Ananda-Ananda ho gayA..

samAdhAna- jise Ananda ho use hotA hai.

mumukShu- gurudev pahalese hI kahate the, shankA nahIn karanA, yah panchamakAl hai, hajam nahIn hogI, kahIn bAt mat karanA.

samAdhAna- sthApanA ho sakatI hai usakI dalIl chImanabhAI, chandubhAI... digambar samAj pUrA virUddha ho jAye. abhI unhen shAnt rahanekA ek kAraN hotA hai. kisIkA Adar karanemen dikkat nahIn hai. apane bhagavAn surakShit rahe. koI samAjako takalIph nahIn ho. abhI to kitane bhagavAn honevAle hain. usake pahale yahAn pUjA, bhakti karanekA bhAgya mile... ye to AnandakI bAt hai. bhagavAn to jab honge tab to... abhI to kitane bhagavAn honevAle hain. jis din bhagavAn honge us din pUjA, bhaktikA IntajAr karanA, usake badale abhI hI pUjA, bhakti (kar len). prasang AyA hai use kaun dUr kar sakatA hai? IntajAr karaneke bajAy abhI hI pUjA, bhaktikA prasang hai, usamen jo bhaktivAle hain unhen kahIn mudat ADe nahIn AtI. use bhakti uchhalatI hai. .. aisI bAt hai. yah rAjakumAr tIrthankar honevAle hain.

mumukShu- gurudevane svayam utsav manAyA aisA hai kyA?

samAdhAna- aisA kuchh nahIn hai. aisA koI khyAl nahIn AtA. vimalanAth bhagavAnane utsav manAyA thA. agale bhavamen hone vAle hain, unhonne utsav manAyA hai. bahut samIp hai. vahAn-se devamen jAkar turanta tIrthankar hone vAle the na. unhonne utsav manAyA. svayamne utsav manAyA. svayamko Ananda ho gayA hai. svayamko khyAl to hotA hai, parantu bhagavAnane kahA isaliye adhik Ananda AyA, isaliye utsav manAte hain. ghAtaki khaNDa dvipamen pUrva bhavamen the. pUrvamen ghAtakI khaNDake kitane hI tIrthankar yahAn padhAre hain. do-chAr bhagavAnake to yahAn chitra hai. pUrva bhavamen ghAtakI khaNDamen the, vahAn tIrthankar gotra bAndhA, yahAn bharat kShetramen tIrthankar hue hain. .. ghAtakI khaNDamen the. ... tIrthankar honevAle hain, to unhen Ananda ho gayA hai. AgAmI bhavamen tIrthankar honevAlA hUn, yah bAt sunakar unhen ekadam Ananda A gayA. svayam hI utsav manAte hain. shAstramen AtA hai, main tIrthankar hUn, isaprakAr utsav manAyA hai.

mumukShu- trilokInAthane tilak kiyA.

samAdhAna- gurudevako vah bAt kahI isaliye phir shurUAtamen pravachanamen bolate

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the ki trilokInAthane TIkA lagAyA, phir aur kyA chAhiye? hIrAbhAIke bangalemen gurudev the. (samvat) 1993 varShamen. pravachanamen to jise khyAl ho use mAlUm paDe. bAkI gurudev bAhar kuchh nahIn bolate the. pahale to bahut hI gupta thA. pravachanamen AtI thI, jise mAlUm ho use khyAl AtA thA ki is arthamen bolate hain. ... ve svayam kahate the, tIrthankar hUn. mujhe kuchh mAlUm nahIn thA. ve mAnate hain, aisA mujhe bhI nahIn mAlUm thA ki gurudev svayamko kyA mAnate hain.

mujhe aisA lagatA thA ki ye mahApuruSh hai. parantu ye tIrthankar honge, aisA mere dimAgamen bhI nahIn thA. mujhe jo AyA vah gurudevako kahate-kahate aisA lagatA thA ki main yah kahatI hUn, parantu gurudevako kyA lagegA? mainne to himmat karake kahA (to) gurudevako ekadam pramod AyA. kyonki ve svayam to andar mAnate the. ve mAnate hain, yah mujhe mAlUm bhI nahIn thA.

mumukShu- phir bAtakA mel ho gayA.

samAdhAna- hAn, mel ho gayA. gurudevane bAdamen (kahA), main tIrthankar hUn aur mujhe AbhAs (hotA hai), vah sab bAt kI. bAdamen kahA.

mumukShu- bAdamen kahA.

samAdhAna- bAdamen. .. tIn bAr OM AyA.

mumukShu- ..

samAdhAna- main tIrthankar hUn, aisA mujhe kuchh andarase bhAs hotA hai. aisA gurudev kahate the. aur rAjakumArakA to gurudevako svapna AyA thA, dIkShA leneke bAda. main rAjakumAr hUn, baDA sharIr hai. yahAnkA sharIr nahIn, vah sharIr alag thA, aisA kahate the. paghaDI, jharIke kapaDe Adi saba.

sImandhar bhagavAnane kahA ki yah rAjakumAr tIrthankar honevAle hain. .. bhaviShyamen tIrthankar honevAle hain. sImandhar bhagavAnakI vANImen AyA hai ki yah rAjakumAr bhaviShyamen tIrthankar honevAle hain.

mumukShu- mAtAjIne sAkShAt sunA hai.

samAdhAna- bhagavAnakA samavasaraN alag, bhagavAn bhI alag, vANI bhI alag aur sunanevAle sab dev, deviyAn, gaNadhar, muni, sabhA, rAjA-rAniyAn, arjikA, lAkho shrAvak, shrAvikA, vah sabhA hI alag aur vah utsAh bhI alaga. ye rAjakumAr to tIrthankar hain. aise rAjakumAr .. ye rAjakumAr! ye to tIrthankar hain. bhagavAnanI vANI Adi sabakA mel ho gayA. bhagavAnakI vANImen AyA ki ye to tIrthankar honevAle hain.

gurudevakI gambhIratA. pahale gambhIr, gupta rahatA thA. do shabda bhI bAhar nahIn Ate

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the, sab andar hI rahatA thA. kisIko nahIn kahate the. kuchh-kuchh logonko andar- andar gurudev bahut guptarUpase kahate the.

mumukShu- mAmAko kahA to .. kaisA lagatA hai?

samAdhAna- .. sabakI sunanekI taiyArI.. viruddha mAholamen kyA ...

samAdhAna- ... main trikAl aur yah bhed hai, itanA jAnatA hai. usamen utanA jor nahIn hai usamen. yah to vedan hai, merI sva orakI paryAy hai, svakI orakA bhAg hai. vah vibhAvakI orakA bhAg thA. ye mere rishte-sambandhavAle hain, usake sAth koI nAtA yA sambandha nahIn hai. apanI shuddha paryAy svayamkI jAtikI hai. nij svabhAvakI gnAti vAlA hai. .. jor nahIn hai. dRuShTikI apekShAse jAnate hain ki yah paryAy ansh hai. dRuShTikA jor dravya par hai aur paryAyako vaise bhinna nahIn karatA, vaise joravAlA nahIn hai.

mumukShu- donomme bahut antar hai.

samAdhAna- donommen bahut antar hai. apekShA jAnatA hai ki dravya trikAl, guN trikAl hai aur yah pragaT paryAy hai vah ansh hai. aisA jor usamen nahIn hai. yah svabhAvakI orakA bhAg hai, vah vibhAvakA bhAg hai.

mumukShu- 38vIn gAthAmen sabako ekasAth atyant bhinna hai, aisA kahA. to bhI usamen aisA jor-jorakA antar rahatA hai?

samAdhAna- antar rahatA hai. gnAn use barAbar jAnatA hai ki yah paryAy merI orakI hai, parantu paryAy hai. usamen svabhAvabhed hai, atyant bhinna hai. svabhAvabhed hai. isamen svabhAvabhed nahIn hotA. anshakA bhed hotA hai. svabhAvabhed nahIn hai.

mumukShu- ye mere rishtedAr hai.

samAdhAna- hAn, dRuShTikI apekShAse ekamen DAl de, lekin usamen samajhanA paDatA hai. dravyakarma, bhAvakarma, bhed vah sab AtA hai. bhedAbheda. sab paryAyake bhedase AtmA bhinna hai. usakI apekShA samajhanI paDatI hai. dRuShTikI apekShAse ekamen jAtA hai, sabase bhinna paDatA hai. usamen jo shuddhaparyAy hai, .. yah kShayopashamake bhed, ye bhed to un sabamen apekShA samajhatA hai. kShAyikake bhed, vibhAvake bheda. dRuShTikI apekShAse ekamen jAtA hai, parantu gnAnamen sab apekShAen rahatI hai. dRuShTikI apekShAmen ek tattva hUn, ek dravya hUn, aisA jor rahatA hai. parantu gnAnamen sab vivek rahatA hai.

mumukShu- guurudev kahate the, billI bachcheko pakaDe aur chUheko pakaDe, dononkI pakaDamen pharka hai.

samAdhAna- andarase nyArA ho gayA hai. pakaD-pakaDamen pharka hai, aisA gurudev kahate the. dRuShTikI apekShAse ekamen kahate hain. isase bhinna, isase bhinna, isase bhinna, isase bhinna

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kiyA, isase bhinna kiyA. usamen apekShA hotI hai. paryAyake bhed, shuddhaparyAyako sAdhanekA puruShArtha rahatA hai. dravya par dRuShTike joramen sab sadhatA hai. nirmal paryAy pragaT karanekA to puruShArtha chAlU hai. dRuShTikI apekShAse bhinna karatA hai, sAdhanAmen usakA puruShArtha karake sAdhatA hai aur us vibhAvako to bhinna karatA hai, nikAl detA hai. ise sAdhanekA prayatna hai. paryAyako sAdhatA nahIn hai, parantu usamen apekShA AtI hai. dravyadRuShTike joramen gnAn, darshan, chAritrako sAdhanekA puruShArtha chAlU hai. vItarAgadashA.

mumukShu- dRuShTikA kArya alag prakArakA aur puruShArtha karanekA kArya sAthamen chAlU hai.

samAdhAna- dRuShTi aur gnAn donon sAth hote hain. puruShArtha bhI chalatA hai. ek bhedagnAnakI dhArAmen sab A jAtA hai. ek dRuShTi aur gnAna. usake sAth lInatAkA puruShArtha, sab sAthamen rahate hain. paraspar sambandha vAle hain. paraspar ek-dUsarese viruddha kArya karanevAle nahIn hai. dRuShTikA jor dravya par AtA hai, gnAn dononkA vivek karatA hai. sAthamen puruShArthakI Dor chAlU hai. paraspar ekadUsareko kisIko toDate nahIn, sab sAth rahate hain.

mumukShu- vikalpa Aye to vikalpako samAneke liye kyA karanA?

samAdhAna- vikalpa chhoDaneke liye? samAneke liye. sabakA ek hI upAy hai, gnAyakako pahachAne to vikalpa samAte hain. shuddhAtmAko pahachAne ki main to gnAyak hUn. vikalpa merA svabhAv nahIn hai, main nirvikalpa tattva hUn. yah vikalpa samAnekA upAy hai. lekin gnAyakako yathArtha pahachAne to vikalpa samAte hain. nahIn to use ashubhabhAvamense shubhabhAvamen palaT sakatA hai.

pratham jignAsAkI bhUmikAmen dUsare vichAramense tattva vichAramen, dev-guru-shAstramen Adimen vichArako palaTatA hai. bAkI vikalpa vAstavik rUpase kab samAte hain? pahale manda shubhabhAvarUp ho, vAstavik kab chhUTe? gnAyakako pahachAne to. bhedagnAn kare to vikalpa samAte hain. vikalpase bhinna paDe to vikalpa vAstavik rUpase chhUTate hain, bhinna paDate hain. vAstavamen to nirvikalpa hotA hai, tab vikalpa chhUT jAte hain. bAkI bhedagnAnakI dhArAmen vikalpa bhinna paDate hain, vikalpa manda ho jAte hain. gnAyakakI pariNati pragaT kare to. jabatak vah nahIn ho tabatak bhAvanA kare ki, main gnAyak hUn, vikalpa merA svabhAv nahIn hai, main usase bhinna hUn. aise bArambAr gnAyakakI mahimA lAye, gnAyakakA svabhAv pahachAnakar, main yah gnAyak hUn, yah vikalpa merA svabhAv nahIn hai, isaprakAr vikalpa samAnekA usakA ek prayAs chalatA hai. ashubhamense shubhamen lAye, parantu vAstavik rUpase vikalpa usase bhinna paDate. gnAyakako pahachAnanekA prayatna kare to vah vikalpa chhUTanekA upAy hai, usase bhinna paDanekA upAy hai.