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mumukShu- ... vyAkhyAn karanA vah to hamArA khurAk hai. us vakta pUjya gurudev vyAkhayAn karate ho us vakta unakI pariNati svabhAvakI or visheSh jhukatI hogI? vyAkhyAn to hamArA khurAk hai.

samAdhAna- unako andar jo pariNati apanI antaramen chalatI thI, us apekShAse bAt thI. bAharase vyAkyAn kare (usase nahIn), antarakI apanI anek jAtakI pariNati chale, shrutagnAn Adi anek jAtakI pariNati chale. svabhAv dashAkI anek jAtakI pariNati chale us apekShAse bAt hai. svAdhyAy, dhyAn vah sab hamArA khurAk hai. vah to unhen antarakI pariNati...

mumukShu- dhruvakA jo gholan chalatA ho, us vakta pariNati visheSh AtmAmen magna hotI ho, aisA kuchh hai?

samAdhAna- aisA usakA artha nahIn hai. pravachanake samay visheSh aur bAdamen kam aisA usakA artha nahIn thA. vah to gurudevakA svAdhyAy Adi sab... svAdhyAy hai vahI hamArI pariNati hai. vyAkhyAn kare, svAdhyAy kare, vAnchan kare, vah sab hamArA khurAk hai, aise arthamen hai. akelA pravachan hI, aisA usakA artha nahIn hai. pariNati jAy, isaliye vyAkhyA khurAk hai, aise. vyAkhyAn... orakA vikalpa thA. andar ghoTan apanA thA. prabhAvanAkA yog, sabako lAbh milanevAlA thA, isaliye unhen vyAkhyAnakA vikalpa thA. antaramen unhen svayamkI pariNati chalatI thI. vyAkhyAn to nimitta thA.

mumukShu- nirmal dashA vah to AtmAkA..

samAdhAna- apramatta dashA yAnI antarakI svAnubhUti.

mumukShu- vah to AtmAkA svabhAv hai na?

samAdhAna- AtmAkA svabhAv, AtmAkI anubhUti. munidashAkI AtmAnubhUti. samyagdarshanamen anubhUti hotI hai, ye munidashAkI visheSh chAritradashAkI. gnAn, darshan, chAritrakI ekatArUp pariNati ho, vah apramatta dashA.

mumukShu- apramatta dashA hai vah to AtmAkA svarUp hai.

samAdhAna- AtmAkA svarUp jo anAdiananta hai vah nahIn, ye pragaT huA svarUp

PDF/HTML Page 1075 of 1906
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hai. anAdiananta svarUp hai vah nahIn. yah to pragaT pariNatirUp svarUp, anubhUtirUp svarUp hai. anAdiananta svarUp hai vah to hai. lekin ye to anubhUtirUp svarUp munionko pragaT huA hai. gnAn-darshan-chAritra ratnatrayakI ekatArUp pariNati pragaT huyI hai. anubhUtirUpa. visheSh prachur svasamvedan, apanA vedan pragaT huA hai. svarUp yAnI usakA vedana. anAdiananta svarUp hai aise nahIn. usakI vedanarUp pariNati hai, apramatta dashA yAnI. ratnatrayakI ekatA visheSh pragaT huI hai.

mumukShu- jaise chAritraguNakI paryAyamen sAdhak dashAmen do dhArA hotI hai, vaise Ananda guNakI prati samay do dhArA hotI hai yA nahIn?

samAdhAna- AnandaguNakI dhArAmen do dhArA, aisA nahIn hotA. Ananda to jo svAnubhUtike vakta pragaT hotA hai, vahI Ananda hai. bAkI use hameshA shAnti-samAdhikA vedan hotA hai.

mumukShu- chhaThaven guNasthAnamen sukhaguNakI paryAy sampUrNa dukharUp pariNamatI hai?

samAdhAna- chhaThaven guNasthAnamen chAritrakI jo paryAy hai, vah chAritrakI paryAy amuk rUpase pariNamatI hai. sukharUp pariNamatI hai, dukharUp nahIn pariNamatI. chAritra kahIn chalA nahIn jAtA, savikalpa dashAmen. munionko chAritra hai.

mumukShu- aur sukhaguNakI paryAy?

samAdhAna- sukhaguNakI paryAy hai. hai parantu jo svAnubhUtikA Ananda hai, us jAtakI yah paryAy nahIn hai. svAnubhUtikA Ananda hai us jAtakI paryAyakI nahIn hai. chAritra dashA to hai. svAnubhUtimen pragaT hotI hai. savikalpa dashAmen sukharUp to pariNamatA hai. sukhak vedan to hotA hai. samyagdRuShTiko bhI sukhakA vedan hotA hai. aur munionko to chAritra hai isaliye visheSh sukhakA vedan savikalpa dashAmen hotA hai. sukhakI paryAy, AnandakI paryAy use kahate hain, bAkI vah Ananda alag aur yah sukh donon alag vastu hai. sukhakI paryAy kahate hain, bAkI donon alag hai. AnandaguN aur sukhaguN, sab ek apekShAse kahate hain, bAkI AnandaguN aur sukhaguN donon bhinna-bhinna hain.

samAdhAna- ... usamen ananta guN hain. usamen us guNako paryAy kahate hain aur usI guNako guN kahate hain. aisA AtA hai. gnAn aur darshan do guN kahate hain. chetanAkI do paryAy koI jagah kahanemen AtA hai. aisA bhI AtA hai. ek chetanAguNa. usamen gnAn aur darshan do. dononko paryAy kahate hain, lekin do guN hain. do guN bhI kahanemen bhI Aye, donon guN joradAr hai. asAdhAraN guN hai. samuchchayarUpase use chetanAguN kah dete hain. vaise chAritra, sukh aur Ananda. Ananda guN bhI kahate hain aur Anandako paryAy bhI kahate hain. sab kah sakate hain.

mumukShu- ... satpuruShake charaNakamalakI vinayopAsanAke binA prApta nahIn kar sakatA.

PDF/HTML Page 1076 of 1906
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yah nirgrarrntha bhagavAnakA sarvotkRuShTa vachanAmRut hai.

samAdhAna- hindI hai?

mumukShu- jI hAn, Apako gujarAtI (kahatA hUn). paramAtmAkA dhyAn .. parantu AtmA vah dhyAnako satpuruShake charaNakamalakI vinayopAsanA binA prApta nahIn kar sakatA. yah nirgrarrntha bhagavAnakA sarvotkRuShTa vachan hai.

samAdhAna- paramAtmAkA dhyAn karanese paramAtmA huA jAtA hai. paramAtmA kaun hai? paramAtmAkA svarUp kyA hai? paramAtmAkA dhyAn karane paramAtmA huA jAtA hai. paramAtmA, dravya svayam paramAtmA hai. usakA dhyAn kaise karanA? usakA kyA svarUp hai? vah batAye kaun? satpuruShakI charaN-upAsanAke binA vah ho sakatA nahIn. vah svarUp kaun batAye? paramAtmA kise kahate hain? paramAtmAkA svarUp kyA hai? usakA dhyAn kaise kiyA jAy? vah sAdhakadashA, sAdhya, vah sab satpuruShakI charaN-upAsanA binA ho sakatA nahIn.

vah mArga satpuruSh batAte hain. anAdikA anajAnA mArga hai. vah svayam apaneAp apanI kalpanAse.. paramAtmA kise kahanemen AtA hai, vah samajhe binA dhyAn kare to shrImadajI hI kahate hain, dhyAn tarangarUp ho jAtA hai. us dhyAnamen anek jAtake vikalpa.. vikalpa (chalate hain). vikalpa manda kare lekin jo yathArtha chaitanyakA astitva hai, use grahaN na kare to dhyAn ho sakatA nahIn. ek chaitanyako lakShyamen lekar usamen upayogako sthir kare to dhyAn jamatA hai, nahIn to dhyAn jamatA nahIn. satpuruSh jo batAte hain ki tU svayam hI paramAtmA hai. terA dravya svayam paramAtmAsvarUp hI hai. tU gnAyak svayam paramAtmA hai. paramAtmAkA svarUp batAye, us par dRuShTi sthApit kar, usamen terI lInatA kar to yathArtha ... vah mArga satpuruSh darshAte hain.

satpuruShakI upAsanA binA, satpuruSh jo batAte hain us mArgako grahaN kiye binA dhyAn ho nahIn sakatA. apanI kalpanAse dhyAn nahIn ho sakatA. dhyAn AtmAko pahichAne binA (hotA nahIn). us AtmAkI pahichAn kaun karavAye? satpuruSha. jinhonne mArgako jAnA hai, jisane mArgako sAdhA hai, aise satpuruSh us mArgako darshAte hain. isaliye satpuruSh jo kahate hain use grahaN karanA. ve kyA Ashay kahanA chAhate hain? paramAtmA kise kahate hain, yah satpuruSh batAte hain.

nahIn to jIv to anAdi kAlase paramAtmA yAnI.. jo paramAtmA hai vah chaitanyasvarUp paramAtmA hai, yah samajhatA nahIn. parantu dUsare paramAtmAko paramAtmA samajhatA hai. vah paramAtmA jisane pUrNa svarUp prApta kiyA vah paramAtmA barAbara. lekin vah paramAtmA bhI aisA hI kahate hain ki tU svayam paramAtmA hai, usakA dhyAn kara. svayam paramAtmasvarUp hai usakA

PDF/HTML Page 1077 of 1906
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dhyAn karanese paramAtmA huA jAtA hai. vah mArga satpuruSh batAte hain.

satpuruShakI vinay upAsanA. jo satpuruSh kahe use grahaN kare aur satpuruShako vinayase ve jo mArga batAte hain, usakA Ashay grahaN kare, use vinayase sune, shravaN karake andar grahaN kare to prApta hotA hai. sva mati kalpanAse prApta nahIn hotA. unakA vinay, unakI bhakti, hRudayamen bahumAn ho to vah pragaT hotA hai. sva mati kalpanAse artha kare ki ise kahate hain yA ise paramAtmA kahate hain, aise vah prApta nahIn hotA. satpuruShakA Ashay barAbar grahaN kare. vinayase, bhaktise ki ve kyA kahanA chAhate hain? koI apUrva mArga guru batA rahe hain. gurune jo apUrvatA batAyI, us apUrvatAko svayam barAbar vinayase samajhe to prApta hotA hai.

svayam dhyAn karane jAy to dhyAn jamatA bhI nahIn hai. paramAtmA kise kahate hain, yah yathArtha grahaN kiye binA dhyAn (hotA nahIn). nij astitva grahaN kiye binA dhyAn jam nahIn sakatA. dhyAn tarangarUp ho paDatA hai. dhyAn anAdi kAlamen kiyA, bahut bAr dhyAn kiyA, vikalpa manda hue, dhyAnamen kuchh ekAgratA huyI parantu AtmA grahaN nahIn huA, to dhyAn tarangarUp ho paDA. kuchh lAbh nahIn huA. satpuruShake vinayase unhonne jo kahA vah grahaN karanese paramAtmA pahichAne jAte hain, paramAtmAkA dhyAn hotA hai. sab satpuruShake charaNamen vinay aur bhaktise unake vachanonko grahaN karanese hotA hai.

mumukShu- bhakti kaisI?

samAdhAna- bhakti to svayam mahimA kare. bAharase bhakti kare aisA artha nahIn hai. antaramen bahumAn AnA chAhiye. unake vachan par sarva prakArase bahumAn AnA chAhiye. arpaNatA honI chAhiye. ve kahate hain barAbar hai, unhonne jo mArga kahA hai vah barAbar hai. is tarah svayam svayamse nakkI karake bahumAn AnA chAhiye. svayam vichAr karake nakkI kare ki ye satpuruSh hain aur koI apUrva mArga batA rahe hain. phir jo bhI kahen vah barAbar hai. aise svayam antaramense us jAtakA bahumAn, us tarah hRudayamen bhakti AnI chAhiye.

mumukShu- dUsare koI gnAnIke prati idhar-udharake vikalpa Ate ho to use gnAnIkA bahumAn yA bhakti antaramen nahIn hai.

samAdhAna- nahIn, idhar-udharake vikalpa Aye to vah bhakti nahIn hai. jo guru kahate hain vah barAbar hI hai. phir usakA hRuday arpaN ho jAtA hai. unakI bhakti aur mahimAse.. jo guru sAdhak dashA sAdh rahe hain usamense nikalI huyI vANI aur sAdhakatAke jo-jo kArya hon vah sab use bahumAnarUp hI grahaN karatA hai, anyathA grahaN nahIn karatA.

mumukShu- use usamen shankA na paDe.. us jAtakI taiyArI..

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samAdhAna- us jAtakI taiyArI, andarase bahumAn, bhaktivAleko ho jAtA hai. usamen kuchh Ashay hogA, usamen kuchh hit hogA, aisA artha grahaN karatA hai. aisA dikhatA honeke bAvajUd aisA kahate hain, usamen kuchh hit yA Ashay gurukA hai, is tarah svayam grahaN karatA hai. usamen kuchh mere hitake liye athavA kuchh Ashay hai, aisA artha grahaN karatA hai.

mumukShu- jain darshanamen guru-shiShyakA aisA hI mel hogA?

samAdhAna- aisA hI hotA hai. jinakI pariNati sAdhakatAkI or gayI, jo muktike mArga par guru pariNamate hain, unake jo kArya hai vah sab lAbharUp aur hitarUp hI hai. aise shiShyako arpaNatA A jAtI hai.

mumukShu- .. svachchhandamen jAtA hai?

samAdhAna- vah sab svachchhandamen jAtA hai. apanI kachAs hai.

mumukShu- tabatak tattva prApta nahIn kar sakatA?

samAdhAna- mushkil hai.

mumukShu- to bhI kAryakArI nahIn hotA?

samAdhAna- dhAraNAgnAnase nahIn lekin antar bahumAn aur ruchise Age baDhA jAtA hai. prayojanabhUt tattva grahaN kare, lekin andar bahumAn aur ruchi ho to vah Age baDhatA hai.

mumukShu- bAharamen gnAnIke prati bahumAn aur antaramen AtmAkI ruchi.

samAdhAna- gnAnIke prati bahumAn aur antaramen tattvakI ruchi. in dononkA sambandha hai.

mumukShu- ek ho vahAn avinAbhAvI dUsarA ho hI. AtmAkI ruchi ho use gnAnIke prati bahumAn hotA hI hai.

samAdhAna- antarakI ruchi ho use gnAnIke prati bahumAn hotA hI hai. aisA sambandha hai. antarakI ruchi ho aur guruke prati bahumAn na ho, aisA nahIn banatA. to usakI ruchimen kachAs hai. to apanI buddhi-kalpanAse sab nakkI karatA hai, usamen usakI ruchikI kachAs hai. jise prApta karanekI ruchi hai, usamen guuru kyA kahate hain? guru prati arpaNatA sAthamen hotI hI hai. main jAn nahIn sakatA hUn, main jis mArga par jA rahA hUn, vah mArga mujhe pragaT nahIn hai, jinhonne pragaT kiyA un par arpaNatA (hotI hai) aur ve kyA kahate hain? us prakArakA vinay aur bhakti usake hRudayamen hote hI hain. svayam jAn nahIn sakatA hai aur jinhonne jAnA hai unake prati bahumAn nahIn hai to usamen us jAtakI kachAs hai.

mumukShu- gurudevake shiShyommen to bahubhAg aisA hI lagatA hai ki dhAraNAgnAn to

PDF/HTML Page 1079 of 1906
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bahut spaShTa hai, bahutonko hai, phir bhI prApta nahIn kar sakate hain usako aisA hI koI svachchhanda apanA hogA, aisA lagatA hai. main to merI apanI bAt karatA hUn. aisA lagatA hai ki abhI bhI aisA kuchh na kuchh (svachchhanda chal rahA hai).

samAdhAna- jo jignAsu hai vah apanI hI kShati khojatA hai ki merI kahIn na kahIn kShati hai. isaliye merA puruShArtha uThatA nahIn hai. merI kahIn kShati hai. apanI kShati khojanevAlA hI Age baDh sakatA hai. dUsarekI kShati khojanevAlA Age nahIn baDh sakatA. apanI kShati khoje vahI Age baDhatA hai.

mumukShu- dUsarA kuchh mat khoj, bIjun kAI shodhIsh nahIn, mAtra ek satpuruShako khoj aur unake charaNakamalamen sarva bhAv arpaN karake pravRutti karatA raha. sarva bhAv arpaN karake pravRutti karatA raha. sarva bhAv yAnI? sarva arpaNatA? sarva prakArakI.

samAdhAna- sarva prakArakI arpaNatA. guru jo kahate hain vah sab arpaNatA. usamen bIchamen apanI kalpanA, bIchamen apanI koI hoshiyArI nahIn. guru kahate hain vah sab arpaNatA. apanI hoshiyArI yA apanI mati kalpanAse kuchh nakkI nahIn karanA, guru jo kahe vaise. apane sarva bhAv arpaNa. jo kahe vah use mAnya hai. mujhe samajhamen nahIn AtA hai. svayam samajhanekA prayatna karatA hai. bAkI jo guru kahate hain vah barAbar hai. merI apanI kachAs hai. shrImad to vahAn tak kahate hain na, guruko sarva bhAv arpaN kar de, phir mukti na mile to mere pAsase le jAnA. aisA kahate haiain.

mumukShu- isake bAtakA vAkya hai.

mumukShu- vah barAbar hai?

samAdhAna- mere pAsese le jAnA, usakA artha yah hai ki tujhe mukti milegI hI. sarva bhAv arpaN kar de arthAt tU gnAtA ho jA, isaliye tujhe mukti milegI hI. sarva bhAv arpaN kara. koI bhAv nahIn, sabakA svAmItva chhoD de, sab guruko arpaNa. isaliye tujhe svayamko bhedagnAn ho jAyagA. tU svayam gnAtA ho jAyagA, mukti milegI hI. mere pAsase le jAnA, usakA artha hI yah hai ki tujhe milegI hI. nishchit kahate hain.

mumukShu- .. phir bhI aisA to lagatA hai ki kuchh na kuchh kachAs abhI bhI rahatI hai.

samAdhAna- kahIn na kahIn apanI kachAs hai. der lage, usamen apane pramAdakA kAraN ho, kahIn rukatA ho vah kAraN ho, apanI samajhamen kachAs ho, anek jAtakI kachAs hotI hai. bahumAnakI, anek prakArakI kachAs hotI hai. gurukI arpaNatAkI, samajhakI, puruShArthakI, anek prakArakI kachAs (hotI hai).