PDF/HTML Page 1795 of 1906
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samAdhAna- gurudev to anek prakAr-se sab spaShTa karake kahate the. muktikA mArga gurudevane koI apUrva rIt-se sabako samajhAyA hai aur unakI vANI apUrva thI. kitanon jIvonko taiyAr kar diye hain.

mumukShu- gurudev-se lAbh huA to phir ekatva ho gayA.

samAdhAna- gurudev-se lAbh huA usamen ekatva nahIn hotA hai. ekatva pariNati ekatva dRuShTi ho to hotA hai, aise ekatva nahIn hotA hai. bhedagnAnapUrvakakI pariNati ho vahAn ekatva hotA hI nahIn. ekatvabuddhi ho vahAn ekatva hotA hai. gurudev-se lAbh huA aisA mAne isaliye usakI ekatva pariNati nahIn hai. vah bole aisA aur vah kahe bhI aisA ki gurudev-se lAbh huA, gurudev Ap-se lAbh huA, Apane hI sab kiyA, Ap-se hI sab prApta kiyA hai, aisA kahe.

mumukShu- shabda ek hI hon, phir bhI dRuShTimen pharka hone-se abhiprAyamen pharka hai.

samAdhAna- dRuShTimen pharka hone-se pUrA pharka hai. ekatvabuddhi-se kahe aur bhedagnAn- se kahe usamen pharka hai.

mumukShu- ekatvabuddhivAle-se bhI jyAdA vinay kare.

samAdhAna- hAn, jyAdA vinay kare, jyAdA vinay kare.

mumukShu- bhAShAmen to ananta tIrthankaron-se adhik hai, aisA kahe.

samAdhAna- hAn, Apane yahAn janma nahIn dhAraN kiyA hotA to ham jaisonkA kyA hotA? aisA kahe. jyAdA vinay kare. kyonki antaramen svayamko jo svabhAv pragaT huA hai, us svabhAvakI use itanI mahimA hai ki jo svabhAv jisane pragaT kiyA aur samajhAyA, us par use mahimA AtI hai. antaramen jo shubhabhAv vartatA hai, usake sAth bhedagnAn vartatA hai aur shubh bhAvanAmen jo AtA hai, usamen use uchhAlA AtA hai ki merI pariNati pragaT karanemen gurudevane aisA upadesh dekar jo gurudev maujUd the, un par use uchhAlA AtA hai. ata dUsare-se jyAdA utsAh Akar bhakti AtI hai. usakA aisA dikhe ki dUsare-se kitanI (bhakti hai). bAhar-se aisA lage mAnon ekatvabuddhi-se karatA ho aisA dikhe. parantu shubhabhAvanAmen use bhedagnAn vartatA hai, us shubhabhAvon-se aur shubhabhAvamen jo

PDF/HTML Page 1796 of 1906
single page version

use uchhAlA AtA hai, vah alag prakArakA AtA hai.

mumukShu- kitanA vichitra lage. andar usI bhAv-se bhedagnAn karatA hai.

samAdhAna- andar usI bhAv-se bhedagnAn hai aur us bhAvamen uchhAlA aisA hai ki mAnon gurudevane hI sab kar diyA, aisA bole. aur aisI bhAvanA use hotI hai. jUTh nahIn bolate hain, bhAv AtA hai. usake sAth bhedagnAn hai aur uchhAlA aisA AtA hai.

mumukShu- donon ekasAth hai.

samAdhAna- donon ekasAth hai. bhinnatA hone par bhI uchhAlA aisA AtA hai, mAnon dUsare-se usakI bhakti jyAdA ho. isaliye shAstrommen AtA hai na ki us shubhabhAvanAmen usakI sthiti kam paDatI hai, ras jyAdA hotA hai.

mumukShu- gnAnIko sab manjUrI dI gayI hai. agnAnI vahI shabda bole to kahe terI ekatAbuddhi hai.

mumukShu- muphta hai? bhedagnAn chalatA hai.

mumukShu- phAvAbhAI kahate the ki Ap samyagdRuShTikA pakSha karate ho.

samAdhAna- ekatvabuddhi hai use kahate hain.

mumukShu- bhakti aur bhedagnAn dononkA mel hotA hai, aisA hai?

samAdhAna- hAn, dononkA mel hai. bhedagnAnake sAth bhaktikA mel hai. aur svabhAvakI mahimA jahAn AyI hai, svabhAvakI pariNati (huyI hai), shAshvat AtmA, usakI svAnubhUti, usakI mahimA AyI. vah pUrA andar sthir nahIn ho sakatA hai, isaliye bAhar jo shubhabhAvanA Aye, us bhAvamen usake sAmane jo jinendra dev, guru aur shAstra, jo sAdhak aur pUrNa ho gaye, un par (bhAv AtA hai ki) aho! aisI pUrNatA, aisI sAdhak dashAko dekhakar use ekadam ullAs aur uchhAlA AtA hai. aur jinhonne upadesh diyA aur upakAr kiyA, un par ekadam uchhAlA AtA hai. bhedagnAn aur bhakti donon sAthamen hote hain.

mumukShu- do viShay kahe-ek to pUrNatA dekhI aur ek to jinhonne upakAr kiyA. un donon par uchhAlA AtA hai.

samAdhAna- donon par uchhAlA AtA hai. sAdhak dashA, upakAr kiyA, upadesh diyA aur pUrNatA, un sab para. aur shAstra jo sab darshAte hain, un sab par uchhAlA AtA hai. jitane sAdhakake aur pUrNatAke bAhar jitane sAdhan ho, un sab par use ullAs AtA hai. phir bhI usI kShaN bhedagnAn vartatA hai. donon pariNati bhinna-bhinna kAm karatI hai. gnAyakakI aur shubhabhAv donon pariNati.

mumukShu- pahale prashnake javAbamen Apane aisA kahA ki paryAy bIchamen AtI hai.

PDF/HTML Page 1797 of 1906
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bIchamen AtI hai usakA artha kyA? pragaT paryAyako gnAnamen jAnatA hai aur us par- se gnAyakako grahaN karatA hai, aisA Apako kahanA hai? paryAy bIchamen AtI hai mAne kyA?

samAdhAna- bIchamen paryAy dravyako grahaN karatI hai. dravyako grahaN karanemen paryAy sAthamen hotI hai. sIdhA dravya grahaN nahIn hotA. grahaN karanemen paryAy sAthamen hotI hai.

mumukShu- dravyako grahaN karanemen paryAy sAthamen hotI hai.

samAdhAna- paryAy sAthamen hotI hai.

mumukShu- aur paryAy grahaN karatI hai.

samAdhAna- hAn, paryAy dravyako grahaN karatI hai. dravyako grahaN kare arthAt vah samyak paryAy pragaT huyI. paryAy hotI hai. to hI usane dravyako grahaN kiyA kahA jAya. yadi use samyak paryAy pragaT ho to.

anAdi-se dravya to hai, parantu usane grahaN nahIn kiyA hai. svayam us rUp pragaTarUp- se pariNamA nahIn hai. dravya to anAdi-se svabhAvarUp hai, parantu usane us rUp pariNati pragaT nahIn kI hai. isaliye paryAy use grahaN karatI hai aur paryAy us rUp pragaTarUp- se pariNamatI hai. isaliye paryAy sAthamen hotI hai. paryAy usake sAth pragaT hotI hai, samyak rUp-se.

mumukShu- paryAy samyak rUp-se sAthamen pragaT hotI hai, isaliye paryAy bIchamen hotI hai.

samAdhAna- paryAy bIchamen hotI hai.

samAdhAna- .. pratyek vijayamen tIrthankar bhagavAn virAjate hain, achchhe kAlamen. vartamAnamen vIs viharamAn bhagavAn virAjate hain. jab chAron or tIrthankar hote hain, jitane vijay hai, videhakShetrake 32 vijay hain. sabamen ek-ek vijayamen tIrthankar bhagavAn virAjate hain. utane tIrthankar virAjate hain.

mumukShu- ... lAkhon, usakI sankhyAkA to pAr nahIn hai.

samAdhAna- vah to sankhyAtIt hai. achchhe kAlamen to kevalagnAnIkA samUh, munionkA samUh (hotA hai). vartamAnamen mahAvideh kShetramen bhagavAn virAjate hain. kevalagnAnIkA samUh, munionkA samUh, sab samUh hai. videhakShetramen to chaturtha kAl vartatA hai. shrAvak, shrAvikAen, samyagdRuShTi anek hote hain. yahAn to bhAvalingI muni dikhanA mushkil hai. samyagdRuShTikI bhI durlabhatA hai. is bharatakShetramen to aisA panchamakAlamen ho gayA hai.

mumukShu- airAvatamen bhI lagabhag aisA hI hogA?

samAdhAna- airAvatamen bhI aisA hI hai. jaisA bharatamen, vaisA airAvatamen. donon AmanesAmane hai. sadA chaturtha kAl, mokSha aur kevalagnAn sadA rahatA hai. bhAvalingI muni, sab gnAn chaturtha kAlamen mahAvideh kShetramen sab hai. vahAn kitanA hai aur yahAn usamen-se kuchh bhI

PDF/HTML Page 1798 of 1906
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nahIn hai, thoDA rahA hai. aisA hai.

mumukShu- kalpanA karanI bhI mushkil paDe aisA ho gayA hai.

samAdhAna- hAn, thoDA rahA hai. ye to gurudevake pratAp-se itanA prachAr ho gayA. aur sabako aisA ho gayA ki antaramen kuchh alag karanA hai, aisI sabakI dRuShTi huyI ki karanA antaramen hai. chAron or hindustAnamen itanA prachAr ho gayA. nahIn to ekadam (kShIN) ho gayA thA. bAhya kriyAmen dharma manAte the. ...

samAdhAna- .. prayatna aur bhAvanA to rahate hI hain, antaramen jabatak nahIn ho tabataka.

mumukShu- bahut bAr vichAr AtA hai ki gaharI jignAsA, Ap kahate ho, gaharI jignAsA chAhiye. to gaharI jignAsA kis prakArakI hogI? vaisI gaharI jignAsA apanemen kyon pragaT nahIn hotI hai?

samAdhAna- (usake binA) use chain paDe nahIn. antaramen usakI pariNati vahAn jAkar hI chhUTakArA ho, aisI antaramen-se ugra pariNati pragaT ho to ho.

mumukShu- vah nirantar akhaNDa rahanI chAhiye.

samAdhAna- nirantar akhaNDa rahe to pragaT hotA hai. ek antarmuhUrtamen kisIko pragaT ho vah bAt alag hai. bAkI abhyAs karate-karate bahubhAg hotA hai.

mumukShu- jitanI gaharAImen jAye, usakA gaharA bhAv grahaN hokar pariNaman ho jAnA chAhiye, usamen abhI bahut der lagatI hai.

samAdhAna- jitanI andar bhAvanA ho us anusAr usakA puruShArtha (chalatA hai). aur vah sahajarUp-se andar ho jAy to use hue binA rahe nahIn. jaise dUsarA sab sahaj ho gayA hai, vaise apanI taraphakA puruShArtha bhI use sahaj ekadam ugrarUp-se ho to ho. bAr-bAr use chhUT jAy aur karanA paDe, usake bajAy use sahaj us taraphakI ugratA, bhAvanA, us or tIkhA puruShArtha rahA hI kare to hotA hai.

dUsarA sab sahaj abhyAs jaisA ho gayA hai, vibhAvakA to. vaise yah use sahaj (ho jAnA chAhiye). main gnAn-gnAyakamUrti hUn, vaisA sahaj antaramen-se us jAtakI pariNati ban jAy, bhale abhyAsarUp ho, to use antaramen Age baDhanekA kuchh ho sakatA hai.

mumukShu- vedan aisA honA chAhiye ki jisase vah prApta na ho tabatak chain na paDe.

samAdhAna-hAn, chain na paDe, aisA vedan use andar-se AnA chAhiye. apanA svabhAv grahaN kare, parantu vah manda-manda nahIn hokarake aisA vedan andar-se pragaT ho ki vah prApta na ho tabatak chain na paDe. aisA ho to use andar-se ugra Alamban aur ugra pariNati apanI taraph jAy to vah pragaT hue binA rahe hI nahIn. AkulatArUp nahIn,

PDF/HTML Page 1799 of 1906
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parantu use andar-se vedan hI aisA hotA hai ki pariNati bAhar Tikaneke bajAy, ekatvabuddhi TUTakar antaramen gnAyak pariNati ho, aisI ugratA honI chAhiye. phir visheSh lInatAkI bAt bAdamen rahatI hai. parantu ye gnAyakakI pariNati use bhinna hokar ekadam pariNamanarUp ho, aisA ugra vedan use andar-se AnA chAhiye.

mumukShu- utanA ho to bhI bahut hai. utanA ho. phir Age chAritrakI ekAgratA alag bAt hai.

samAdhAna- usakA antaramen bAr-bAr abhyAs karatA rahe. vah ugra kaise ho, aisI bhAvanA karate-karate ugra ho to kAm Aye. parantu abhyAs karanemen thakanA nahIn. abhyAs to karate hI rahanA. use chhoDanA nahIn. usakI sanmukhatA taraphakA prayatna chhoDanA nahIn.

mumukShu- sanmukhatAmen thoDA khyAl Aye, mAtAjI! phir to chhUTe nahIn. parantu mUlamen jo bhAvabhAnasarUp-se gnAyak lakShyamen AnA chAhiye, vah koI bAr Aye, phir to kitane hI samay tak aisA lage ki ye to jo khyAl AtA thA vah bhI nahIn AtA hai, aisA bhI ho jAtA hai. vah grahaN hokar TikA rahe to-to ullAs baDhe, sab ho aur Age baDhanA ho. parantu aisI paristhiti kabhI-kabhI ho jAtI hai ki kabhI do-chAr- chha mahinemen thoDA khyAl AyA...

samAdhAna- phir-se sthUl ho jAtA hai na, isaliye bAhar sthUlatAmen chalA jAtA hai. isaliye use sUkShmatA honemen der lagatI hai. aisA ho jAya. vaisA use antaramen-se phir-se laganI lage to ho sakatA hai.

mumukShu- satpuruShonko dhanya hai ki unhonne aisI pariNatiko dhArAvAhI TikAkar apanA kArya kar liyA.

samAdhAna- .. vah antaramen-se Age jAtA hai. dhArAvAhI pariNati to bAdamen hotI hai, parantu ye usakA abhyAsa.

muumukShu- abhyAsamen dhArAvAhI. samAdhAna- dhArAvAhI. khaNDa paD jAy aur sthUl ho jAy, isaliye phir-se sUkShma honemen aur gnAyakako grahaN karanemen der lagatI hai. aise bAr-bAr chalatA hai. parantu aise hI bArambAr aisA ugra abhyAs kare to use ho.

mumukShu- pariNati sanyogAdhIn ho jAtI hai. mumukShu- .. shraddhAguN aur gnAnaguN dononkA sAthamen honA vah shraddhA hai? vah pakkA nirNay?

samAdhAna- pratItakI shraddhA bhI kahate hain aur gnAnamen dRuDhatA, donon kahate hain. vichAr karake nirNay kare. gnAnakI dRuDhatA aur shraddhAkI dRuDhatA, donon. donon kahanemen AtA hai.

PDF/HTML Page 1800 of 1906
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pakkA nirNay, lekin andar vichAr-se nirNay kare vah alag hai. andar svabhAv pariNatimen- se nirNay Ave vah alag hai. ye to vikalpAtmak nirNay hai. dhAraNA arthAt raTA huA, smaraNamen rakhA huA, gurudevake upadesh-se grahaN kiyA huA, vichAr-se nakkI kare ki barAbar aisA hI hai, vah pakkA nirNaya. vah nirNay gnAn-se bhI hotA hai aur pratItamen bhI hotA hai.

mumukShu- phir to anubhUti ho tabhI pakkA nirNay kahA jAyegA na?

samAdhAna- anubhUti ho tab kahA jAya. parantu anubhUti hone pUrva use yathArtha kAraN pragaT ho tab bhI nirNay hotA hai. parantu ye to abhI vikalpAtmak, pahalekA nirNay hai vah sthUl hai. usake bAd jo anubhUtipUrvakakA nirNay hotA hai vah yathArtha hai.

mumukShu- aur jinavANImen sabamen gnAn, darshan aur chAritra in tInon guNakI mukhyatA- se gnAyakako kaise prApta karanA vah AtA hai, to gnAyakamen ananta guN hai, jIvamen to ananta guN hai to phir ye tIn guN hI vibhAv pariNatiyukta hain? ki unakI shuddhatA- se gnAyakakI prApti hotI hai?

samAdhAna- ananta guN vibhAvarUp nahIn pariName hain. sAdhak dashAmen tIn Ate hain-darshan, gnAn aur chAritra. darshan yathArtha hotA hai to gnAn bhI yathArtha hotA hai. phir chAritra bAkI rahatA hai. phir lInatA hotI hai. darshan, gnAn, chAritra tIn ho to sab shuddha hotA hai. ananta guN sab ashuddha nahIn hue hain. darshan, gnAn, chAritrakI.... ek samyagdarshan hotA hai to sarva guNonkI pariNati samyakarUp ho jAtI hai. ek chakra phire, dishA par taraph hai, sva taraph Aye to pUrA chakra sva taraph hotA hai.

mumukShu- thoDA kaThin lagatA hai.

samAdhAna- na ho tabatak... chhoD denese (kyA hogA)? ruchi karate rahanA, bhAvanA karate rahanA, karanA to ek hI hai-AtmAko grahaN karanA vahI hai.

mumukShu- munirAjako tIn kaShAyakI chaukaDI (gayI hai), utanI shuddhatA hotI hai aur thoDI ashuddhatA hotI hai, to chAritraguNakI ek paryAyamen shuddhatA-ashuddhatA donon sAthamen rahatI hai?

samAdhAna- donon sAth rahate hain. usake amuk ansh shuddha hote hain aur thoDI ashuddhatA hai. munirAjako vItarAg dashA nahIn huyI hai, isaliye thoDA sanjvalanakA kaShAy hai. chAritra bahut pragaT huA hai. thoDI ashuddhatA rahatI hai.

mumukShu- aur vah shuddhikI vRuddhi shuddhopayog hotA jAy tabhI hotI hai?

samAdhAna- hAn, shuddhopayog (hone-se) andar shuddhikI pariNati hotI jAtI hai. virakta dashA, antar-se visheSh-visheSh antaramen lInatA hotI jAtI hai, lInatA baDhatI jAtI

PDF/HTML Page 1801 of 1906
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hai. isaliye Age jAte hain.

mumukShu- gnAn so AtmA. bhed paDA isaliye 11vIn gAthA anusAr sadabhut vyavahAranay huA, abhUtArtha yAnI paradravya jaisA huA, to gnAnakI paryAy pUrA AtmA svadravya gnAt hotA hai? anubhUti hotI hai?

samAdhAna- guN-guNIkA bhed paDatA hai isaliye sadabhut vyavahAr hai. abhUtArtha yAnI usamen Ap jaise kahate ho vah nayakA svarUp hai, aisA nahIn hai. dravyadRuShTi-se par kahanemen AtA hai. vah paryAy apanI hI hai. use dravyadRuShTikI apekShA-se bhed AtmAmen nahIn hai, AtmA to akhaNDa hai. akhaNDa vastu hai. usamen bhed karanA, pUrNa aur apUrNakA bhed paDe us apekShA-se use par kahanemen AtA hai. vAstavik rUp-se vah jaD hai aisA usakA artha nahIn hai. vah jaD nahIn hai, chaitanyakI paryAy hai.

mumukShu- apanI?

samAdhAna- hai apanI paryAy, parantu usamen bhed paDatA hai isaliye dravyadRuShTikI apekShA- se use par kahanemen AtA hai. vah Apane kyA kahA abhUtArtha? ... bAkI us ashuddha paryAyako koI apekShA-se apanI kahanemen AtI hai. isaliye use asadabhut vyavahAr kahanemen AtA hai. vyavahArake bahut bhang hai.

... koI apekShA-se apanI kahanemen AtI hai. dravyadRuShTikI apekShA-se use par kahanemen AtA hai aur bhed paDe, apanI paryAy hai isaliye apanI kahanemen AtI hai.

mumukShu- aur jis samay anubhUti ho, us vakta to paryAy rahit dravya gnAyak, ekarUp gnAyak hI...

samAdhAna- paryAy rahit dravya nahIn ho jAtA. mumukShu- nahIn, vartamAn paryAy to bAhar rah jAtI hai na? samAdhAna- palaT jAtI hai. ashuddha paryAy palaTakar shuddha paryAy hotI hai. dravya par dRuShTi dene-se shuddha pariNati pragaT hotI hai. paryAy rahit dravya nahIn ho jAtA, paryAyakI shuddha pariNati hotI hai. ... parantu gnAnamen sab dhyAn rakhanA. paryAy rahit koI dravya hotA nahIn. parantu usakA astitva grahaN karake usakA bhed paDatA hai, use lakShyamen lene- se vikalpa AtA hai. isaliye use lakShyamen nahIn liyA jAtA. parantu usakI pariNati to hotI hai. usakI svAnubhUti pragaT hotI hai, vahI paryAy hai. pariNati to hotI hai. dravya svayam paryAyarUp pariNamatA hai, parantu us par lakShya nahIn rakhanA hai. paryAy usamen- se nikal nahIn jAtI, paryAy pariNamatI hai. dravyakI dRuShTi pragaT karanI hai. bAkI gnAnamen to paryAy hai, aisA rakhanA hai aur vah pariNati dravyakI hI hotI hai, svAnubhUtimen.